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are you ever satisfied with your created software/program?
yes
32%
 32%  [ 11 ]
no
67%
 67%  [ 23 ]
Total Votes : 34

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vbVeryBeginner



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 884
Location: \\world\asia\malaysia
vbVeryBeginner
with the ability to create near "infinity" variables, procedures. assign values to them, cast them into different type, access to database, and etc.

are you ever satisfied with your created software/program?
or no matter how many time you redo, you wouldn't feel satisfy?
or there are just "thing" inside that program that make you feel uncontrolable?
Post 27 Aug 2006, 13:46
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
I've voted 'No', because I am satisfied with my created program only that day, when I've just "finished" my work. But not the next day... Wink (this is some kind of programmer's hangover).

Regards,
M.H.
Post 27 Aug 2006, 14:52
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HyperVista



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 691
Location: Virginia, USA
HyperVista
Hi vb!

I agree 100% with MHajduk. Software is never really done, we work it until it's "good enough". It can always be improved .... the cursed programmer's hangover, as MHajduk so neatly stated Cool
Post 27 Aug 2006, 15:09
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
usually yes

i am usually satisfied with my work (i work slowly, and result usually is as awaited). of course everything has flaws, and everything can be improved, but if you craft it precisely and you already have enough skill, then it's better than most others and you CAN be satisfied
Post 27 Aug 2006, 16:01
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okasvi



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 382
Location: Finland
okasvi
voted no, I've noticed the same thing as MHajduk.
Post 27 Aug 2006, 16:12
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
okasvi:

I always thought, that Suomi (Finland) must be a cool Cool country Very Happy.

Regards,
M.H.
Post 27 Aug 2006, 18:09
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 2141
Location: Estonia
Madis731
off-topic, but Yes! It is! A lot of lakes and beautiful places.

On the topic: I voted no and that is the absolute truth - I have a lot of programs that are good-enough just because it would be too complicated or too unnecessary to include that last "bit".
Post 27 Aug 2006, 19:07
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zhak



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 490
Location: Belarus
zhak
Possibly, no. When it's done already I always find smth. new to add. And it frequently happens so that I can rewrite the code for many times from the very beginning when it seems to me, that smth. is completely wrong or could be done in another way.
Post 27 Aug 2006, 22:08
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vbVeryBeginner



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 884
Location: \\world\asia\malaysia
vbVeryBeginner
why we don't/couldn't satisfy?
i just don't know why even if we got the "total power" to create/change/destroy variables/procedures. we still couldn't get it into a state/shape that we feel "perfect"

or we are just too "creative" that everytime we look at the creation (code), we would want to change something on it?

or we expect ourself (the code creator) to memorize all the variables/procedures name and their purpose?

or we should drop the high expectation on the code and accept the fact that no matter how we code, perfection is just really far from us.
Post 28 Aug 2006, 01:39
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RedGhost



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 443
Location: BC, Canada
RedGhost
I am constantly switching the language I use, also constantly switching my programming style and naming conventions, especially in C. To be truthful I am never satisfied. Whenever a programme gets to that messy-debugish point I always get frustrated and start again or even abandon the project.

My time line is something like:

C++ Hungarian notation->MASM Hungarian->NASM Hungarian->FASM Hungarian->FASM asmish naming->C asmish (took up K&R here aswell)->C# asmish->C/C# with a more C# convetion like "varName"->C/C#/FASM back to a more pure C like convention.

It's all about the learning Wink

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Post 28 Aug 2006, 07:54
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
RedGhost: that's good that you are evolving yourself, not taking some style as The-Only-One. I also had such time with FASM, until i brought my style to definite one (btw, a little bit too HLL-ish style). Right now i am also searching my C style :]
Post 28 Aug 2006, 09:13
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RedGhost



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 443
Location: BC, Canada
RedGhost
vid wrote:
RedGhost: that's good that you are evolving yourself, not taking some style as The-Only-One. I also had such time with FASM, until i brought my style to definite one (btw, a little bit too HLL-ish style). Right now i am also searching my C style :]


I think more of a pure "typeless" convention for fasm is what I will stick with, since I have been using it for a while and after all it's all just a chunk of memory.

I think the flow of C code is very important so I am constantly trying to find a style that flows well and I am comfortable with, so far I have been using alot of typedefs of my own. I have kind of grown to despise Hungarian notation. I hope you get a C style you can keep because I sure can't find one!

Since I think programming can be an art, why not share my current style? from a current project: (note I even go as far as making sure parentheses line up, which is probably a bit much :\)

Code:
byte *insertdetour( detour_t *d ) {
    if( d == nil )
        return nil;

    if( d->address == nil || d->gateway == nil || d->oplen < 5 )
        return nil;

    d->stub = malloc( d->oplen+5 );

    if( d->stub == nil )
        return nil;

    memcpy( d->stub, d->address, d->oplen );
    
    *(byte *)(d->stub+d->oplen  ) = 0xE9;
    *(uint *)(d->stub+d->oplen+1) = ((d->address-d->stub)-5);
        
    ulong oldprot;
    VirtualProtect( d->address, d->oplen, PAGE_READWRITE, &oldprot );

    *(byte *)(d->address  ) = 0xE9;
    *(uint *)(d->address+1) = ((d->gateway-d->address)-5);

    //insert nop padding
    if( d->oplen > 5 ) {
        byte *p = (d->address+5);
                
        while( p < (d->address+d->oplen) )
            *p++ = 0x90;
    }

    VirtualProtect( d->address, d->oplen, oldprot, &oldprot );

    return d->stub;
}
//---
    

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Post 28 Aug 2006, 11:06
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
so you use "_t" suffix?
i personally dislike it :]

Code:
*(uint *)(d->address+1) =     

that's what i like about HLLs Wink

looks like you are constructing some code, comments on opcodes would them be welcomed Smile

at least some 0x90 //nop


Last edited by vid on 28 Aug 2006, 14:05; edited 1 time in total
Post 28 Aug 2006, 11:53
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okasvi



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 382
Location: Finland
okasvi
I do the exact same thing, I'm 'evolving' daily when I decide to rewrite my current projects Confused
Just few days ago I dropped using win32a.inc and decided to not use any macros in my code to make it look better Razz
Post 28 Aug 2006, 12:42
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JohnnyReb



Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 8
JohnnyReb
Maybe the poll should have excluded style. I know that my style is constantly evolving, even after 28 years of programming. So, the temptation is always there to migrate an older program to a newer and (perceived) better style.

I find that, otherwise, I am usually satisfied with the algorithms and organization of my programs ... disregarding when enhancements or other maintenance is required.

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JohnnyReb
Win if you can, Lose if you must, but always cheat!
Post 28 Aug 2006, 18:47
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RedGhost



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 443
Location: BC, Canada
RedGhost
vid wrote:
so you use "_t" suffix?
i personally dislike it :]

Code:
*(uint *)(d->address+1) =     

that's what i like about HLLs Wink

looks like you are constructing some code, comments on opcodes would them be welcomed Smile

at least some 0x90 //nop


0x90=nop, 0xE9=relative jump Very Happy. Yeah I am bad sometimes for not commenting but, the code is doing this->

Code:
;before insertdetour called:

some_api:
    mov edi, edi
    push ebp
    mov ebp, esp
    ;rest of code
;---

..................

;after insertdetour called:

some_api:
    jmp some_api_hook
    ;rest of code
;---

some_api_stub:
    ;emulate first 5 bytes
    mov edi, edi
    push ebp
    mov ebp, esp
    jmp some_api+5 ;passed the jump
;---

some_api_hook:
    ;my stuff
    jmp some_api_stub
;---
    

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Post 28 Aug 2006, 21:39
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vbVeryBeginner



Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 884
Location: \\world\asia\malaysia
vbVeryBeginner
well, style is one of the important aspect that lead us to satisfaction. i find my self preffer the "." ideology. (maybe i would preffer something else in future, idk Surprised )

like, form.backgroundcolor = "red"
form->backgroundcolor = "red" is nice too, but "->" is a bit :p :p
and to choose to name a variable based on object or process or etc is really a pain task.

Quote:
I think more of a pure "typeless" convention for fasm is what I will stick with, since I have been using it for a while and after all it's all just a chunk of memory.

yeah, i like typeless too, it should be us, the programmer to define should that address be loaded as byte , word or dword. :p

i got one idea,
maybe somebody should come up with COLUMN Programming language Smile ~ making use of horizontal concept
the column editor would have 3 column or more
each column has their own specific rulez and bla bla bla.

h a p p y c o d i n g !
Post 29 Aug 2006, 08:03
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OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 1029
Location: Everywhere
OzzY
I voted no, because I've never coded something big. I like to test small pieces of code, just for learning. But I never got time to create a big project to be proud of. Very Happy
Post 31 Aug 2006, 15:26
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Reverend



Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 408
Location: Poland
Reverend
I've voted yes. Generally I change my style as you mentioned here. But when I finally release a program I'm really proud and satisfied. Btw. the best thing about changing style is when I make some template for future coding. After some time, I copy it to start a new program, and its style is already obsolete so I code from ground up Smile.
Post 10 Sep 2006, 14:01
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Picnic



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: behind the arc
Picnic
I voted no, it would be a memorable day if i ever be satisfied.
Still feeling like a noob in asm, i'm just expirimenting, seeking my style Smile
Post 12 Nov 2010, 12:17
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