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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2903
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bitRAKE
Post 22 Jan 2008, 22:59
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
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edfed
thank you nasa Laughing
does this mean:
This project is endless!
?
or only a discouraging message to show the late we have in programming?
Post 23 Jan 2008, 00:10
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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bitRAKE
Some inspirational talk on collaborative project development, and motivations for open development.
Post 23 Jan 2008, 00:41
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
ok, so let's go
now, i'm working on a little code for a little contest on a french forum, to show the power of fasm.
i hope it will attract the more possible programmers...the more we are, the more it's fun.
Post 23 Jan 2008, 00:54
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
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Dex4u
First i think its best to make a basic kernel that boots and goes to pmode, like for example my VesaDemo, then every one can use this to add there .inc to add the part they are coding, this is the best way to code something like this.

Once a list is made of what need doing first, i will take something from the list and code it.

But remember for this to be successful, its must stick to the basic idea of a bootable web browser that can log into this forum in more or less 1 second.
So anything that does not help this goal need to be left off, i am not sure why we need multi-tasking.
Because i for one am not interested in a lets build a OS.
The thing that i like about this project, is to make a bootable web browser, as simple as possable.
To this end it needs to have a boot loader
Eg: bootprog (no grubs, as it over the top and leave you in pmode, keep it simple)
Than it needs mouse and keyboard driver.
its needs to prob the pci for a set number of ethernet cards and set up for that card.
(say 4 common cards)
Set up vesa
It needs a tcp/ip stack
It needs a dhcp client
it needs abasic windowing sys
It needs a basic web browser (built around the needs of this forum)

That's it, end of project and any body who needs more can add to the code, after the goals have been achieved.
Keep the goals simple and stick to it and it will happan, if not it will not.

But i can only take part with these as a goal, as i am coding my own OS and have no desire to code another.
But a fast booting, bootable web browser written in 100% fasm, would be a cool project.

I have thought for a long time about making such a program, that's why i want to help.
But no glorified OS please, bootable browser yes.
Post 23 Jan 2008, 01:09
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
it's not an os, it's a web browser, time will decide of the evolution of this contest.
LET'S GOOO

i've already a graphic lib, but it's too much complex to code with, but it's fast.
i'll try to adapt it to your vesademo code !
Post 23 Jan 2008, 01:20
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
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Dex4u
I have added the exit code and added vesa fonts, i am thinking about adding basic windowing before posting.
I have also broke it down to many .inc files.
Post 24 Jan 2008, 02:58
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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
Nice project.

Let me know when things are ready... If you still need more people! Very Happy
Post 24 Jan 2008, 09:30
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
dex4u wrote:
...Keep the goals simple and stick to it and it will happan, if not it will not.
exactly right...
dosin wrote:
....If you still need more people!
always....
edfed wrote:
...time will decide of the evolution of this contest.
profound, and true. It is a contest of ourselves, not for any prize, apart from the satisfaction of creating something from nothing, like magic.
Smile
Post 24 Jan 2008, 12:24
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
Quote:
for all users


dosin is now added to the staff.


the time will be cutted in 3 parts.

1st = define all features, design book, devellop the librairy and build the test browser. to debug all functions. (from now to april)
2nd = build the basic operational browser. (from april to june)
3rd = contest begins. (from june to "winner is...")

who feel good in html? cause we need the html interpertor.
all members shall understand all the code (be able to reproduce it alone) to participate, not an obligation, but it's better to make it well and fast.

are you ready?

ps: don't speak obout the good repercutions it could have, like:
wow, it's a good project, with this, we'll become the masters of the world!
or thing like that..
it's only a little technical project. ambition will come after june... Wink
Post 24 Jan 2008, 13:00
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
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Dex4u
edfed wrote:
3rd = contest begins. (from june to "winner is...")
What do you mean contest begins ?, is this a project or contest 'Confused'

You can not have both ;)

I also think we need to break it down, example
Stage 1
It must boot and display a "hello world!" htm page off the web, in less than 3 seconds.
Stage 2
It must boot and display the current main fasm forum page, off the web, in less than 2 seconds.
Stage 3
It must boot to the main fasm forum page in 1 second and you must be able to post a topic to the fasm forum .


Last edited by Dex4u on 24 Jan 2008, 19:08; edited 1 time in total
Post 24 Jan 2008, 18:46
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17249
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Dex4u wrote:
edfed wrote:
3rd = contest begins. (from june to "winner is...")
What do you mean contest begins ?, is this a project or contest 'Confused'

You can not have both Wink
Sure you can. Here are two ways.

Here is a project for you: Design a contest that will be interesting and fun for all.

Here is a contest for you: Come up with a worthy project that is interseting and fun for all.

Laughing
Post 24 Jan 2008, 19:03
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
yes, this is both...
a project as it is really a project. obtain a fasm browser that can display fams board very fast after the bootloading.

and then, it will become a contest, more exactlly, an optimisation contest, to add fun functionality to the basic browser, and make it faster...

so , it's both... sorry. i hope you're not disgusted by this revelation. Wink

for the 3 steps, i agree with you. this is the effect of my 3 steps definition, everybody can then define these 3 step as he wants.

for fasm bord displaying, prefetch from the program can be a good method, and to post message, this is good too, cause, while user type the first words, the system can fetch the real page from the net...
Post 24 Jan 2008, 19:14
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17249
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
edfed wrote:
sorry. i hope you're not disgusted by this revelation.
No, I am not disgusted by this. Why did you think I would be?

Oh, you said revelation, I thought you said revolution, my mistake. Laughing
Post 24 Jan 2008, 19:18
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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
Quote:
is this a project or contest


Well from reading it started out a contest ..Then turned into a project..

There is not enough people to have a contest...

As I read- I thought they were going to try to have a contest made up of teams.. If this was the case there would need to be more people..


I think it would be a nice project to work on... and see if we all could get this accomplished by a dedline! Quickest boot time would be nice but just making a bootable browser would work!

system boots -
enables connections-
displays the fasm message board-

Possible as time goes on more people would join in! Very Happy
Post 24 Jan 2008, 19:21
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
Quote:
Possible as time goes on more people would join in!

sure and certain, cause when this will have a concrete application, septics will join us.

so, the first part of first step is to make the design book.

i don't know how we can write it efficiently via the net.
Post 24 Jan 2008, 19:39
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
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Dex4u
Well a project is something that you can take part in, add fun functionality and optimise the code.
Thats like saying, the compo is take fasm and add fun functionality and optimise it.
No the hard part is making it in the first place.

So we should set a compo for individual's or teams or its a project to code it.
As i am not and many other are not in the business of coding something and then the compo is slap a bit of eye candy on it to win the compo.
Sorry, but that does not motivate me as a person.
To make a bootable web browser, that can boot in less than a second, to this forum and coded it in 100% asm, is not a easy thing.

As it stands, it sounds to much like code me a bootable web browser and then i will show you what i can do with it Laughing
Post 24 Jan 2008, 19:56
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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Location: 2018
edfed
no
it is more:

coding a fasm browser is a really good job.
everybody will increase his own knowledge with it.

without goals, no matter on programming anything.

if we all code this kind of code, we will be all happy.
then, if you want to think it's only for my own benifits, i let you think it... you're free to think what you want.

all in all, I want this project/contest to be a real fact, and not only some posts.

and i still wait for your demovesa. i find it fast enough to be a base of all boot development.
i can code it myself, but i don't want because i want to see if i can use code from others in my programs without modification. and it's a good trick for a programmer to be able to mix code from various coders... Smile see you later.
Post 24 Jan 2008, 21:21
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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
Quote:
As it stands, it sounds to much like code me a bootable web browser and then i will show you what i can do with it


Well it does not need to be a browser just load the fasm forum..

If its a group effort -
If each person was to take one part of it... work on it- post links to sites that may help..or have specs... If someone gets stuck post there code or ask a question and get help.. A group effort...

True, you may be able to do this on your own... Then just creat the blue print..
and let every one else try to complete it..


I think all we would need to start is a basic kernel that we all agree on.. and let people add to it until it loads the fasm message board..

A window would be neat.. but full screen would work fine! Having mouse suport.. is the same -we could just add a TAB function.. This is not a i will show you what i can do with it .. This is putting people heads together and seing what they can make! Very Happy

Why would this be a problem?
and its your decision to post code/add to the project or not... If anyone wants to sit back and offer advice thats fine..

As far as booting in a sec or two..that would be great.. but we need to get the basics working and then..opt it! Right now there is nothing but an idea.


If I am wrong then you guys have fun... Sad
Post 24 Jan 2008, 22:41
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
i have some problems to code for too much layers. i only code for the easier mode there is 320*200, 256 colors & true real mode. Sad
this is just an idea, a very basical idea... other ideas are possible.
this is a very approximative idea of the global application.


Code:
;a global idea of the browser  24 january 2008
;encapsulation/ decapsulation can be made in macro and functions.
engine:
.segment=0
.offset=1000h
      org 7C00h
      boot engine.segment,engine.offset  
      partitions
      org engine.segment:engine.offset
menu:
@@:
      call choose_option
      jne @b
      jc @f
      call fasm_browser
@@:      
      call other_boot
fasm_browser:
      save_bios
      higher_vesa_mode
      enter_pm
@@:
      call ask_network 
      call interface
      call render_html
      jnc @b
      enter_rm
      restore_bios
      ret
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
render_html:
;gs:esi=html page ptr.
;fs:edi=screen buffer.
@@:
      call parse_balise
      call render_object
jnc @b
      ret
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
ask_network:
      ?
      ret
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
interface:
      ?
      ret
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
other_boot:
???
jmp ?
?
    



ps:
for speed improvement, virtuallization souldn't be made.
all in ram.

the only use of hard disk is for up/download and saving some sources, but very later, or tomorrow?

and another idea of constraint, if possible...
make it executable from an emulator. hem, i don't have an emulator..
Post 24 Jan 2008, 23:53
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