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MazeGen



Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 975
Location: Czechoslovakia
MazeGen
I've just came accross many new undocumented instructions in Intel Opcode Map. Anybody knows something about them? Are them SSE4?

These can be found in IA-32 Intel® Architecture Software Developer's Manual Volume 2B: Instruction Set Reference, N-Z, revision 019, APPENDIX A OPCODE MAP, chapter A.3 ONE, TWO, AND THREE-BYTE OPCODE MAPS, the following tables with undocumented instructions:
Quote:
Table A-4. Three-byte Opcode Map: 00H — F7H (First Two Bytes are 0F 38H)
pshufb, phaddw, phaddd, phaddsw, pmaddubsw, phsubw, phsubd, phsubsw

Quote:
Table A-4. Three-byte Opcode Map: 08H — FFH (First Two Bytes are 0F 38H)
psignb, psignw, psignd, pmulhrsw, pabsb, pabsw, pabsd

Quote:
Table A-5. Three-byte Opcode Map: 00H — F7H (First two bytes are 0F 3AH)
This table is blank Confused

Quote:
Table A-5. Three-byte Opcode Map: 08H — FFH (First Two Bytes are 0F 3AH)
palignr
Post 20 Apr 2006, 11:19
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17279
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Quote:
Are them SSE4?
Might be, Intel seem to be very reluctant about releasing info on SSE4. Perhaps they let those above slip out accidentally.
Post 20 Apr 2006, 14:19
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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Tomasz Grysztar
Hmmm, maybe I should implement them? Wink
Post 27 Apr 2006, 09:23
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 2141
Location: Estonia
Madis731
Very Happy We have SSE5 support even before Intel thinks about making them Razz
Post 27 Apr 2006, 10:17
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
Quote:

maybe I should implement them?
Yes, it is always wise to implement something before it has been defined. Glad to read that you have so much free time....
Post 27 Apr 2006, 10:27
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7724
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Tomasz Grysztar
In fact, I don't have time at all. It's a secret even for me how I manage to make a new fasm releases so frequently... On the other hand most of the additions and fixes I'm doing now are very simple and quick changes to the code... And still a lot of documentations projects are left unfinished.
Post 27 Apr 2006, 12:56
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
Quote:

On the other hand most of the additions and fixes I'm doing now are very simple and quick changes to the code
Yes, simple, and quick. What about enduring? What about logical? What about systematic? Deliberative?

Hmm.
So, while contemplating the strategic value of implementing non-existant SSE-4 instructions, it suddenly appeared "simple and quick" to add such a capability to FASM, thereby assisting thousands of would be FASM users, who desperately need access to SSE-4, in order to accomplish their goal in life. Meanwhile, at the MAIN branch of the forum, earlier today:

***********
"Indeed, Mach-O support is on the way."
***********

So, let's review: It is apparently MORE important to create "simple" and "quick" "fixes" to FASM, addressing the needs of millions of MacIntosh users (who doubtless are ecstatic over the adoption of an Intel cpu, replacing the RISC architecture they had grown accustomed to, and who doubtless, will all be eager to commence Intel assembly language programming--using FASM) than it is to complete
Quote:

a lot of documentations projects [that have been] left unfinished

Hmm.
Well, maybe this situation distinguishes the lofty Assembly Artist, from the less sophisticated, more mundane, fuddy-duddy computer scientist. Crying or Very sad
Post 27 Apr 2006, 15:05
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
tom tobias: just wondering... do you take drugs?

(sorry for offtopic)
Post 27 Apr 2006, 15:19
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okasvi



Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 382
Location: Finland
okasvi
and why just not to be glad that Tomasz keeps improving FASM release after release, w/o getting paid for it...
i see no need for questioning what he decides to add/fix and when, and of course fixes should be prioritized before adding new features...

(sorry for offtopic)
Post 27 Apr 2006, 15:27
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
[offtopic]
I do hope that tom tobias is writing stringly worded letters to Intel to complain that things like "pmaddubsw" are not English.

Intel are clearly wrong in everything they do unless they change the architechure to big endian, rename the chip to 68xxx and make all mnemonics proper English words that my aunt can understand without having to read the manual. Forget about mathematics, boolean etc. we need English programmable CPU's.

[veryofftopic]
I wonder why apple moved towards Intel, maybe they also moved to a new English ASM syntax. Maybe they call it Mac-ASM or MASM for short.

[stillmoreofftopic]
I am not going to buy one if it means I have to pay an extra 40% just for the styling.

[extremelyofftopic]
(to the tune of a famous song by the Village People)
Macho, Macho, Mac . . . I want to own . . . a Macho Mac . . . Smile
Post 27 Apr 2006, 16:05
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
Quote:

tom tobias: just wondering... do you take drugs?
Should one surmise from your question that my submissions are incoherent, or illogical, or display flights of fancy? I suggest you ask Tomasz whether or not I am a drug taker. He met me, in person, for several days, when I visited him in Krakow, several years ago.....
Quote:

w/o getting paid for it...
That's a matter of opinion.
It is typical for a particular type of rhetorical response to attempt to ridicule the questioner, rather than address the underlying issue. Here in USA, for example, whenever one challenges Bush on the deliberate issuance of disinformation regarding supposed weapons of mass destruction, as a justification for invading Iraq, the person raising the question is ridiculed, and criticized as a traitor. The clear majority of American citizens do not consider USA soldiers as mere mercenaries, killing innocent people, as I do.
In my mind the situation is quite clear: Tomasz needs to focus on fixing unsolved problems, rather than engaging in banal and trivial exercises of ZERO importance. You are most welcome to disagree with me. However, I don't find constructive an assertion that my point of view, different though it obviously is from the vast majority of the citizens of USA, represents someone whose thinking manifests impairment of judgement caused by drug intoxication. My thinking is obviously different, I don't deny it. You need to focus on repudiating the message, rather than attacking the messenger. Bottom line: Tomasz has time to do whatever he chooses to do. If he wishes to spend his time working on SSE4, he will. If he chooses to make FASM compatible for Mac Users, he will. I disagree with the premise that he is UNABLE for reasons of TIME constraint to fulfill his obligations. Mad
Post 27 Apr 2006, 16:13
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
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vid
tom tobias: i was asking because your way of thinking is (too) much different from most people, what often happens to people who take drugs... it was not insult, i just found it highly possible
Post 27 Apr 2006, 16:58
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pelaillo
Missing in inaction


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
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pelaillo
Quote:
Tomasz needs to focus on fixing unsolved problems

I think you need to elaborate more on this subject.
Quote:
banal and trivial exercises of ZERO importance

That are the food for Tomasz's satisfaction and very important to keep his interest in continuing with the project.

Quote:
You need to focus on repudiating the message, rather than attacking the messenger.

Fully agree, however vid's question was the first thing that comes into my mind when I read your post Wink
Not that I mean it literally, it's a metaphor for such a strange rant.
Post 28 Apr 2006, 12:56
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MazeGen



Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 975
Location: Czechoslovakia
MazeGen
I hope some moderator will cut the off-topics off to some another thread. Thanks Rolling Eyes
Post 28 Apr 2006, 13:59
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Privalov is plenty focused and productive! Is that enough kissing up to our beloved mentor? Laughing

Anyways, I've read that a person can't accomplish more than one or two big tasks (which take about 3 hours each) in a single day. These are the ones that are both urgent AND important, (A). The secondary ones are important but not urgent (B) and take about 1-2 hours. The remaining tasks are urgent but not important, (C), and take approximately less than 45 minutes each. The big tipoff is not to add any Cs before finishing the As and Bs. Plus, don't plan more than 60% of your time, as the remainder tends to fill up on its own.

I'm no expert, and I'm definitely the worst person in the world at this, but I'm just passing this info along (paraphrased from memory: _La Aboco de Tempoplanado_, Lothar J. SEIWERT, 1995, 53p., available for $3.10 + S&H from ELNA).

A fairly good online article (in English) about procrastination is found here at Christian Coders.
Post 29 Apr 2006, 06:48
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
Quote:

it's a metaphor for such a strange rant
Strange? Rant?
A rant, to my way of thinking, is not synonymous with an argument. One argues a position. The position held may be incorrect. Time generally adjudicates.
In this case, my argument was against two glib statements by Tomasz:
a. "maybe I should implement them?" referring to MazeGen's newly discovered, as yet UNDOCUMENTED instructions in the Intel Opcode Map.
b. "Indeed, Mach-O support is on the way." referring to Tomasz' intention to modify FASM to include support Apple Computer's operating system.
It is not my position that these two activities, (both of which I consider banal) are intrinsically WRONG. I simply think better use could be made of Tomasz' (ostensibly precious) free time:
"And still a lot of documentations projects are left unfinished."
I have no idea why my sarcastic comments ridiculing Tomasz' suggestions should evoke allegations of drug use:
Quote:

it's a metaphor for such a strange rant.
If you disagree with my position, in my opinion, you ought, instead of slandering me, offer some useful description of HOW FASM will indeed become a superior product, by virtue of offering APPLE computer users an opportunity to program in assembly language, and offering PC users the chance to employ UNDOCUMENTED instructions in their programs.
I ridicule Tomasz' suggestions because I think they are ill-conceived, poorly thought out, and A WASTE OF TIME. If, on the contrary, you find them prescient, please argue AGAINST my position, without invoking some absurd sentiments about drugs--literally, or as metaphors.
For those of you who find it DISAGREEABLE to encounter CRITICISMS of beloved Privalov, please read pablum somewhere else. This guy is a MATHEMATICIAN. What do you think? Do you suppose mathematicians CAN'T handle criticism? Mathematics IS criticism.
Post 29 Apr 2006, 11:58
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
What's wrong with supporting mach-o? Apple OS X is about to become more popular with the x86 support, and having assembly available (without resorting to GCC) is certainly a plus. Remember, it's not "Weird apple hardware" support that Mach-O brings, it's OSX x86 support - just like FASM support ELF and whatnot for x86.

So certainly not a waste of time.

Adding support for the new and 'secret' SSE instructions might be a bit ho-humm, but if it's a 5-minute job - who cares? (And with a well laid-out assembler, it should be a 5-minute job since there's already the foundation for other SSE instructions).
Post 29 Apr 2006, 12:03
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7724
Location: Kraków, Poland
Tomasz Grysztar
Didn't anyone notice that my "maybe I should implement them" answer was just facetious?
Post 29 Apr 2006, 15:25
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Quote:
Didn't anyone notice that my "maybe I should implement them" answer was just facetious?
Sure, I did. With the wink also it was prefectly clear to me you what the intention was. I guess some people just don't have a sense of humour. Never mind, I think most people got it without any problem.
Post 30 Apr 2006, 00:33
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
Tomasz writing on 27 April 2006:
Quote:

In fact, I don't have time at all. It's a secret even for me how I manage to make a new fasm releases so frequently... On the other hand most of the additions and fixes I'm doing now are very simple and quick changes to the code... And still a lot of documentations projects are left unfinished.
Then, offering this note two days later:
Quote:

Didn't anyone notice that my "maybe I should implement them" answer was just facetious?
Hmmm...."curiouser and curiouser" http://www.bartleby.com/66/15/10615.html

Should we then assume, that the 27 April 2006 remark about documentation was ALSO facetious, in view of your having included with it, the apparently ironic phrase:

"secret even for (sic, from) me" ?

Yes, I was fooled both by your comment, and by the wink, which I interpreted as suggesting not facetiousness, but rather complete confidence that implementing such a mundane task (five minutes, according to Fudder) would be nearly effortless for such a skillful assembly artist......not the first time you have fooled me, and maybe not the last. Perhaps the reference to Apple was also facetious? I suppose you were simply hungry....? Rolling Eyes
Post 30 Apr 2006, 12:49
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