Fresh2 discussion request

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MCD

Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 602
Location: Germany

MCD 11 May 2005, 09:45

really nice and rather new approach. Only 2 things:

The form editor window should be snapped somewhere to the window borders of the source code, say at character position 1:1 at the beginning. Also the form editor should be completely whitlowed (as possible).

The form editor window should be a separate, own SDI window, thus you may also place it outside of the source. (Else it would be cut if you place it outside, as you can see it in your example pic)

11 May 2005, 09:45

Damnation

Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 45
Location: England

Damnation 30 Sep 2005, 08:31

just took a look the files look old, are there any recent ones?

30 Sep 2005, 08:31

penang

Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 59

penang 01 Oct 2005, 10:46

I was about to ask the same question regarding Fresh 2.

As Tomasz said at http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=3810&start=25 he is about to begin some serious work on the FASMW IDE.

Maybe we'll just wait and see.

01 Oct 2005, 10:46

estrang

Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 38

estrang 03 Nov 2005, 20:11

You guys are good. How could you do something like that in assmbly??

03 Nov 2005, 20:11

vid
Verbosity in development

Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia

vid 03 Nov 2005, 20:36

coding in assembly is just like coding in C. Only each command takes more typing, you can do much more, and you have less useless junk.

03 Nov 2005, 20:36

estrang

Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 38

estrang 03 Nov 2005, 21:14

It feels like im starting to learn programming again. I remember when i started learning C/win32 some years ago, it wowed me all the time when i see something seems unbelievable even a MessageBOx. But this one is diffrent. This is low level coding. I cant imagine myself doing this.

03 Nov 2005, 21:14

vid
Verbosity in development

Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia

vid 03 Nov 2005, 23:06

both are just matter of practise. i don't see a big difference between writing "a = getpointer()->member" and

Code:

call getpointer
mov eax,[eax + somestructure.member]

but i see difference between

Code:

somestructure* temp = getpointer();
if (temp == NULL) 
{
   do some error handling, usually just throws error and quits without
   some real (structured) error HANDLING (!)
}
a = temp->member;

and

Code:

call getpointer
jc .handle_error
mov eax,[eax + somestructure.member]

that's why i code assembly Smile

PS: and you can't test integer overflows in C

03 Nov 2005, 23:06

estrang

Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 38

estrang 03 Nov 2005, 23:22

Thnks for that. So thats how pointers really work in C.

Thats why im trying to learn assembly. Learning assembly would give me knowledge on what really is happening on the low level side. How things really work. Ive known a lot of high level laguage already i still dont know how compiler convert highlevel codes into native language, whats the diffrence between 16bit and 32bit programming and others. With assembly im getting an idea on whats really happening low level even though i have not tried serious stuffs yet. Just by reading assembly tutorials im learning a lot.

03 Nov 2005, 23:22

vid
Verbosity in development

Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia

vid 04 Nov 2005, 00:39

yes, there are types of people who will get more "high level" (eg. to OOP etc.) and types which want to understand things. You seem to be right type for assembly coder Wink

. btw, i was using object-oriented programming before i ever heard of it, all i needed was understanding pointers and then it wa natural solution. but for people who don't see into things (or for theoretics) it is "different programming paradigm", eg. more to learn. for assembly programmer it's nothing new to learn. (that was just an example...)

04 Nov 2005, 00:39

shism2

Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 248

shism2 15 Nov 2005, 04:59

Hey a cool adition could be like an image library.....

Being able to use a gif as an icon Smile

15 Nov 2005, 04:59

oveja

Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Mexico

oveja 14 Apr 2006, 18:11

JohnFound wrote:

I am agree that MDI interface is old-fashioned...

I am agree with you, but I do'n know how to make it. Do you have Tutorials, Mans, etc for Multiwindows SDI programming???? Laughing

God Bless you

14 Apr 2006, 18:11

Adam Kachwalla

Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 150

Adam Kachwalla 19 Apr 2006, 10:47

There are a few things I would like to point out (I will send more if any):

1. Why is the assembler and IDE integrated into one EXE? Isn't there an option whick allows you to select where FASM is located?

2. BTW, is that form selected? There are no resize/drag markers around the form or any of the components (in the screenshot).

3. The MDI interface sounds good (you can have a-gazillion-and-three projects opened up at the same time!).

4. And another question: where did you get the name "Fresh"? Why not call it "Visual Assembler" or "Argos" or something like that?

5. Is the window maker compatible with LINUX or DOS programs (Yes: DOS programs can have windows as well)?

6. Why won't the LINUX program templates work on Fresh 1.1.4A?

7. Is it possible to make FASM compile Win16 applications? If so, how do I do it?

Last edited by Adam Kachwalla on 20 Apr 2006, 00:46; edited 1 time in total

19 Apr 2006, 10:47

vid
Verbosity in development

Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia

vid 19 Apr 2006, 12:37

1. there is command line assembler which you can use from any ide that supports it. Fresh is designed so to be compact, there is no point to have separate assembler. What would it be good for?

And look at progs some High-level progs that have everythig splitted to 150 really needed files. This always makes mess, you only have problems with it when some path needs to be set.

In conlucsion, there's no reason to do it that way, this approach is just better

4. If i recall right, it was best idea found long time ago, and it means "FASM resource helper". Well, now Fresh is much more than just resource helper...

can't help with others

19 Apr 2006, 12:37

Adam Kachwalla

Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 150

Adam Kachwalla 20 Apr 2006, 00:14

vid wrote:

1. there is command line assembler which you can use from any ide that supports it. Fresh is designed so to be compact, there is no point to have separate assembler. What would it be good for?

The reason of having the assembler bundled as a separate EXE is so that you can CHOOSE your assembler (you could use TASM in place of FASM for instance, or use FASM with a gazillion and two different and useful command-line parameters). There should also be a command option in FRESH that allows you to generate ASM files (eg. "FRESH.EXE TEST.FPR -ASM:TEST.ASM").

Also, if Fresh was meant to be compact, you're better off using an EXE compressor such as UPX to compress it (I did it on full strength and the file was reduced to 54.73% of its original size)[/b]

From JohnDound's quote:

JohnFound wrote:

khanh wrote:
Why don't you just make up the poll to see how many prefer MS style or Borland style (the old one).

Because I don't want to choose one of them. I want to satisfy both users. It seems pretty hard, but not impossible. I am sure both SDI and MDI interfaces have flaws and advantages - I want to get only advantages and to avoid flaws. Of course this is only "ideal end result", but we should try to achieve it as close as possible.

Regards.

A poll wouldn't be too bad, but if you want to satisfy both users, why not have an option that allows for an "SDI environment", like in VB6. That way, users can switch from MDI to SDI and vice-versa (MDI is better though: you don't get a big mess of windows on the screen).

Also, if I want to port the application to Linux, is putting "FORMAT ELF" on the beginning all I have to do (or are there any other configs)?

20 Apr 2006, 00:14

vid
Verbosity in development

Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia

vid 20 Apr 2006, 10:56

to the point 1: Fresh is ide only for FASM, not general asm IDE. Maybe you've noticed that too general solution sometimes suffer from their generality, and if you have specialized "solution" (i hate this word) for what you need, then it is usually better to use this one

20 Apr 2006, 10:56

okasvi

Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 382
Location: Finland

okasvi 20 Apr 2006, 19:00

yep, vid is right, like RadASM, really nice ide etc. but _hard_ to get it configured for fasm...

20 Apr 2006, 19:00

vid
Verbosity in development

Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia

vid 20 Apr 2006, 21:03

or let's get even higher, VIM. It could have university teaching it.

20 Apr 2006, 21:03

Remy Vincent

Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 155
Location: France

Remy Vincent 12 Jul 2006, 11:52

I think we need to find "sponsors" to make a DOS or a DPMI version of FRESH RAD tool...

It's so so sad to see such a FANTASTIQ program for windows 32 bit, instead of beeing running under DOS or DPMI!

_________________
Groups lower your IQ

12 Jul 2006, 11:52

rugxulo

Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)

rugxulo 14 Jul 2006, 05:17

There are many good editors, IDEs, etc. for DOS: Jed, GNU Emacs, JASSPA MicroEmacs, VIM, TDE, SET-EDIT, Vile, etc. Trust me, even if some people have migrated to other systems full-time, we DOS fans aren't lacking too much in regards to software. Doesn't mean we can't write more! Wink

14 Jul 2006, 05:17

Adam Kachwalla

Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 150

Adam Kachwalla 12 Apr 2007, 00:26

Fresh should be separated from the FASM compiler. It will allow us to upgrade the compiler everytime a new version of FASM is released (which is fairly regular)

12 Apr 2007, 00:26

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