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robert_



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 5
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
robert_
Arrow The Object X Group is looking for individuals interested in modifying the FASM assembler to allow it to output native Object X binaries, in DLM, DLM-E format, or SE-format binaries. Applicants should have moderate experience in hacking fasm to tiny bits and pieces, aswell as creating new binary formats.

Anyone interested in joining can read our project page, and/or email one of the project's moderators.
____________________________________________________

DLM is an acronym for "Dynamically Linkable Module," an extention loaded into the user environment, ie. a shared library.
DLM("E-format") is an extention loaded into the kernel environment, ie. a driver.
SE is an acronym for "Segmented Executable," an alternative to Microsoft's Bloated PE(Portable Executable) format, offering what should be smaller executable sizes, and faster(hopefully) runtime execution.

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Robert Butler,
The Object X Group,
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/objectx/
Post 23 Apr 2005, 03:47
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
What's the problem with PE executables? You can get files as small as 1k (and even smaller if you don't worry about violating the PE specs a bit), the format supports demand-loading and physical memory sharing, and the dynamic linking is efficient (bound imports, binary search of exports when binding, and delay-loading).
Post 23 Apr 2005, 11:32
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robert_



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 5
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
robert_
Well, the thing is, I'd rather not rely on microsoft-made anything... I would like experience and such creating my own format, hence why I chose to do things as I have.

Robert

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Robert Butler,
The Object X Group,
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/objectx/
Post 23 Apr 2005, 16:12
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
You might want to do some proper investigation of the PE format before you discard it - there's a lot of things to learn, which could be useful for your own format. And if nothing else, you might find *specific* things that you want done differently.

Btw, it would probably be easier to code a tool that converts PE to your own executable format, than adding a new output formatter to FASM. And it wouldn't be a bad thing to do - you learn about the PE format at the same time as you're constructing your own.

Do you have any design specs for your own format yet?
Post 23 Apr 2005, 16:56
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robert_



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 5
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
robert_
Well, I have headers for most everything-- would that count?

Robert

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Robert Butler,
The Object X Group,
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/objectx/
Post 23 Apr 2005, 16:59
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Yeah, it would - you should post your thoughts - call it a draft proposal or something like it. I can give a few comments and stuff if you'd like.
Post 23 Apr 2005, 21:17
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robert_



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 5
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida, USA
robert_
Okay then, I shall post a link--

http://www.r-butler.net/objectx/ -- that's my Object X repository-- dont forget to check out for_iamie.png- thats my theory as to how applications should interact with the kernel...

Robert

_________________
Robert Butler,
The Object X Group,
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/objectx/
Post 23 Apr 2005, 22:20
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 2141
Location: Estonia
Madis731
Don't you need to modify rundll32.exe to run these types of executables? By default in only reads .com, MZ, PE and gives a non-Win32 app on these files.
Would there be a completely different subsystem and an app to run it or would it convert this file to your format and pass it on to rundll32.exe?
Post 25 Apr 2005, 11:24
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
Madis, it seems to be for another OS - and besides, it's not rundll32 that handles image file execution.
Post 25 Apr 2005, 12:10
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7724
Location: Kraków, Poland
Tomasz Grysztar
If you design some really nice format and I like it, I will implement it into fasm myself. But I beg to say it might be hard to satisfy me.
Post 25 Apr 2005, 12:21
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 2141
Location: Estonia
Madis731
Was it the explorer itself that handels the translation of executables ^o)
Post 26 Apr 2005, 12:17
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
No, it's some kernel components... rundll32 is just used to run exports from a .DLL file (loadlibrary + getprocaddress)
Post 26 Apr 2005, 12:48
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