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Madis731 10 Feb 2005, 22:28
WHAT??? You haven't downloaded FASMW yet??? OK, just kiddin' just a hint that FASM is the best assembler there is.
Dissassembly is best with OllyDbg P.S. There is nothing new to FASM if you have done ASM before. "mov eax, ecx" and "mul edi" are mostly similar in any assembler  |
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10 Feb 2005, 22:28 |
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calm_observer 10 Feb 2005, 23:48
Madis731 wrote: WHAT??? You haven't downloaded FASMW yet??? OK, just kiddin' just a hint that FASM is the best assembler there is. thanks madis. I downloaded the console version. I'll probably download the windows version also, but for the immediate furture the console version will work all right for what I need to do right now. Or are there some other reasons for using the GUI version? I'll also check out OllyDbg as you have recommended. I've used nasm in the past which had a list option, but with the size optimization that fasm does thats not an option hence the need for the disassembler. i.e. I want to generate some sloppy, size wise, code and see if fasm optimizes the way I expect (hope?) it will. I'm also concerned about 'protecting' registers (esi and edi and perhaps ebx) as I will need them for software data structures. Thanks again _________________ EDUCATION, n. That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the foolish their lack of understanding. |
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10 Feb 2005, 23:48 |
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JohnFound 11 Feb 2005, 06:44
calm_observer wrote: I downloaded the console version. I'll probably download the windows version also, but for the immediate furture the console version will work all right for what I need to do right now. Or are there some other reasons for using the GUI version? Well, you asked about IDE - FASMW is pretty handy IDE even for big sized applications. Also, check Fresh: http://fresh.flatassembler.net Regards |
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11 Feb 2005, 06:44 |
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Madis731 11 Feb 2005, 08:39
If you worry about FASMWs thickness then I have to say that it is one of the lightest I've seen. Its only a wrap around FASM "engine" with real-time syntax highlighting. It is very convenient to hit F9 to see if your program works - you have everything in one window. I just don't get the idea of using notepad (or other texteditor) and then saving and then compiling and then switching back to notepad (or other) to find the errors by line number. FASMW shows you the exact location and with macros it even cuts it down to pieces and you can follow the path to the lowest level what caused the error.
What comes to sloppy code - assemblers in general are not designed to do speed/size optimizations on it. What this size optimization means is that the shortest (and maybe the fastest) form of codesequence is chosen that does NOT alter the outcome of the instruction. Example: When you multiply in C/#/++ compiler would usually try to replace constants with ADDs, SUBs and SHL(R)s like Code: imul eax,eax,3 ;eax=eax*3 ; vs. lea eax,[eax+eax*2] ;eax=(eax+eax*2) What FASM can do for you is when it finds a jump - it sees if it could pack it short and when you use lea eax,[eax+eax] it might prefer using lea eax,[eax*2] instead (I don't recall if it is shorter this way) Protecting registers is as easy as it can get: Code: proc push esi edi ebx ;short-hand form of series of push ...;some code pop ebx edi esi return endp P.S. I have heard that OllyDbg 2.0 is being developed -  the tracing should be better hundred fold yet the interface should remain rather simple - the way I like it. |
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11 Feb 2005, 08:39 |
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gumletis 11 Feb 2005, 08:57
And the ndisasm is good for decompile source code for see what i does(or your own code if you wanna see what the assembler changes for you(AUTOMATIC!))....
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11 Feb 2005, 08:57 |
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calm_observer 11 Feb 2005, 21:03
Madis731 wrote: ...What comes to sloppy code - assemblers in general are not designed to do speed/size optimizations on it.... Madis... you are correct it does not do what I expected or rather hoped for. I had expected it to be able to take code such as the following: Code: push edx
xchg eax, edx
lea eax, [ebx+X]
mov eax, [eax]
add eax, edx
pop edx and reduce it to the following: Code: add eax, [ebx+X] It doesn't  Back to the drawing board...Thanks_________________ EDUCATION, n. That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the foolish their lack of understanding. |
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11 Feb 2005, 21:03 |
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gumletis 12 Feb 2005, 12:54
but there is always radasm, but its most commen used for masm and nasm, but its still okay, but even when i don't know fresh by johnfound, i would recommen to use that, its sounds alot better then radasm. And if you come from a asm where the use addr and/or offset, that we don't use in fasm
 we just use mov eax,ebx and if you wanna do it offset lea eax ebx .... |
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12 Feb 2005, 12:54 |
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Reverend 12 Feb 2005, 13:35
gumletis, I can't understand what you meant in the last sentence. What did you mean by saying we don't use offsets in fasm? Even tough the second example is incorrect:
Code: lea eax,ebx Will not compile. It should be: Code: mov eax,ebx lea eax,[ebx] But these two do the same! So plz explain it more Returning to main question. Tools I use: - OllyDbg - Intereactive Dissasembler (shorter IDA) - Fresh - Hiew - ResHacker Btw. I am writing ResCracker, my owen vision of resource viewer/editor written in fasm of course |
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12 Feb 2005, 13:35 |
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gumletis 12 Feb 2005, 14:43
owh, lol sorry
 , i mean we use offset, just not like mov eax,offset something
or how they do it in masm or tasm or what else they use it in _________________ LOOOL |
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12 Feb 2005, 14:43 |
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vid 12 Feb 2005, 18:11
my favourite for disassembly is IDA, you can write scripts to auomatize some task (naming of windoze's flags, changing value of arguments to proper types, even ORed flags etc.)
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12 Feb 2005, 18:11 |
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beppe85 13 Feb 2005, 04:02
calm_observer wrote:
I find this subject very interesting. The snippet you posted hardly anyone would write, but after macro-expansion, could appear sequences like this. Can someone show some patterns that we could indeed write? _________________ "I assemble, therefore I am" If you got some spare time, visit my blog: http://www.beppe.theblog.com.br/ and sign my guestmap |
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13 Feb 2005, 04:02 |
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calm_observer 13 Feb 2005, 23:19
beppe85 wrote:
Your correct beppe, no self respecting programmer would write such code. The source for it could look like this: Code: x @ + See Factor Computer Language http://factor.sourceforge.net/ _________________ EDUCATION, n. That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the foolish their lack of understanding. |
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13 Feb 2005, 23:19 |
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calm_observer 13 Feb 2005, 23:29
JohnFound wrote: Well, you asked about IDE - FASMW is pretty handy IDE even for big sized applications. Also, check Fresh: http://fresh.flatassembler.net I'm honored that you should reply to my question (actually I have just now realized who you are ...may I ask how is the developement of Fresh going and how stable is it?_________________ EDUCATION, n. That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the foolish their lack of understanding. |
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13 Feb 2005, 23:29 |
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calm_observer 13 Feb 2005, 23:45
I noticed in another thread an interest in making fasm into a dll http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=2917 has anyone attempted to do it? I think it's a bit more invloved than suggested by Privalov our Site Admin, but he should know more than I. Anyway it seems that the first thing that must be done is to free a register to use for instance variables? Anyway I'm looking into it if anyone is interested let me know.
I figure it's a good start at getting to know the internals of the assembler which I'll have to do since I want to add some peephole (aka pinhole) optimization to do what I want to do. _________________ EDUCATION, n. That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the foolish their lack of understanding. |
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13 Feb 2005, 23:45 |
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JohnFound 14 Feb 2005, 04:09
calm_observer wrote: ...may I ask how is the developement of Fresh going and how stable is it? Well, unfortunately it goes slower than I wish, but it goes. Currently I am working on new concept about visual editing, that will save a lot of code for creating and initializing controls and other objects. Except some features, not finished yet, Fresh is pretty stable and I use it on regular basis in my job to write some machine control applications. The debuger is still not working as it is planed, but you can use OllyDbg as external debuger. Regards. |
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14 Feb 2005, 04:09 |
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