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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7724
Location: Kraków, Poland
Tomasz Grysztar
As for this topic, I suggest reading this page:
http://www.softpanorama.org/Lang/assembler.shtml
(including the great quotations from the Donald Knuth).

Quote:
Without solid base of assembler language programming
the whole building of programmer education is built on sand.
Post 29 Jul 2005, 15:24
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donkey7



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 127
Location: Poland, Malopolska
donkey7
comrade wrote:
...extremely high portability...ease of use...


portability?
do you mean that assembler isn't portable? see at FASM sources Cool
is you use OS API then your code can't be portable. but if you use standard libraries (that have versions for different OS'es) then your code is portable. this can be done also in assembly, of course assembly code can be ported for different platform (i mean processor etc). so, your code can be portable only if you do not use any system specific API. but, who do this nowadays?

ease of use?
with FASM capabilities you can adjust syntax as you want. there were many modifications (i mean additional macroses), that can simplify coding considerably. also you have full control of what is doing now (by processor). it's the main advantage of assembly.

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Keep coding!
Post 29 Jul 2005, 20:10
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Tomasz Grysztar wrote:
As for this topic, I suggest reading this page:
http://www.softpanorama.org/Lang/assembler.shtml
(including the great quotations from the Donald Knuth).
...


Thank you Tomasz, for this informative reference by Dr. Nikolai Bezroukov, who, in addition to commenting on Knuth, also paid hommage to another one of my heroes, Niklaus Wirth.
However, Dr. Bezroukov's web page, while useful in guiding some FASM members, even some SENIOR-most founders of FASM, toward historical figures of great notoriety like Knuth and Wirth, is SLIGHTLY out of date, and in particular, LACKS both a reference and a link to FASM.
I trust you will contact Dr. Bezroukov by email, to let him know of this dynamic forum, which you have created Tomasz. With regard to Raedwulf's humorous zero addition to Comrade's predicted date of 2010, if this x86 obsolete architecture is still extant by 2010 I will be surprised. On the other hand, I have predicted the demise of this wretched cpu since 1981, and without fail, it has prospered and doubled in sales every couple of years, proving that some people are simply not skillful at predicting the future. Though I have a long history of failure in the art and science of prediction, I will nevertheless suggest that in five years time, x86 architecture will prove as irrelevant as the Berlin Wall. Assembly language of whichever cpu replaces it, however, will remain significant for many decades to come, in my opinion. Smile
Post 29 Jul 2005, 20:45
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comrade



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 1137
Location: Russian Federation
comrade
donkey7 wrote:
of course assembly code can be ported for different platform (i mean processor etc)


if i have to "port" my assembly code to a different processor, that already means my code is not portable

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comrade (comrade64@live.com; http://comrade.ownz.com/)
Post 30 Jul 2005, 23:19
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smiddy



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 559
smiddy
keyoke wrote:
I have question... will assembler be obsolete anytime soon? i dont want this to happen anytime soon but ya what is the future of asm?


First, let me say, this here is an old thread brought back to life. One I admit I would be less inclined to post anything into about a year ago, but now I must.

I do not beleive assembler will be obsolete anytime soon, if ever. You are always going to have to program the cpu (whatever the cpu) to do what it needs to do for you. Assembler allows this to happen at the most nuts and bolts level of any language available, besides pure machine language. Pure machine language would be akin to punchcards, punching the numbers of what you want to happen and filling it into memory for the processor to employ. The assembler allows a level of abstraction, that buffers the user from specifically remembering everything that is going on, in a readable style (for Mr. Tobias' benefit). Assembler isn't highlevel, nor is it meant to be, it is a layer above machine language. It allows you the ability to create as explicitly or not as you choose (for some more is better; e ahu waula). Assembler gives you the stepping stone into higher level languages, thus higher levels of complexity in system design. Yes, I beleive assemblers will be around for a long time to come.

For the second question, well, the future of ASM is in the hands of those who impart it. Civilizations lost 500 years of what it took to make cement. CEMENT! Think of this, cememnt as been around during the Roman Empire. But due to lack of use, it was a forgotten technology. Neary 500 years went by without cement. Can you imagine if cement was still a forgotten technology? ASM is a lot like cement, it is a basic building block. You can do everything with a cpu with it, without it, you can not. Fear not, ASM is here for a long time to come. Wink
Post 31 Jul 2005, 00:39
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
smiddy wrote:
...
For the second question, well, the future of ASM is in the hands of those who impart it. Civilizations lost 500 years of what it took to make cement. CEMENT! Think of this, cememnt as been around during the Roman Empire. But due to lack of use, it was a forgotten technology. Neary 500 years went by without cement. Can you imagine if cement was still a forgotten technology? ...

Thanks Smiddy, for this insightful comparison. For the benefit of those who wonder whether there might be some attractive architecture sans cement:
http://www.initaly.com/regions/campania/paestum.htm ---Greek
http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Taj_Mahal.html ---Islamic
http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/wonders/pyramid.html ---Egyptian
http://www.ehabweb.net/hambra.html ----Islamic
Though this topic, the future of Assembly language is worthy of this great forum, I believe it ought to be relocated to "HEAP", as it really has nothing to do with FASM. Smile
Post 31 Jul 2005, 09:21
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smiddy



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 559
smiddy
Post 31 Jul 2005, 11:44
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FrozenKnight



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 128
FrozenKnight
I have fount Writing programs in asm usefull because i can tell exactly where a problem is in a Debugger takes only seconds to debug with modering debuggers (OlyDebug) and asm only takes a little longer to produce code for and it seems to be far more stable than C++. i've never had one of my asm programs hang or access some unknown memory address.
Post 14 Sep 2005, 19:01
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
FrozenKnight: you aren't programming enough with win32 API. They code is extremely crashy if you give it wrong values (or such they didn't await Smile )
Post 14 Sep 2005, 19:07
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veach1



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 165
veach1
Smile then just don`t give them wrong values.
I agree with FrozenKnight. With any HLL I can`t control generated code, I don`t know what kind of shish compiler writes into bin. Thru ASM my prog does exactly things I wrote into.
Post 15 Sep 2005, 07:25
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madmatt



Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 1045
Location: Michigan, USA
madmatt
Well said Veach1!!!! RazzCool
Post 17 Sep 2005, 08:53
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