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keyoke



Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 56
Location: London
keyoke
I have question... will assembler be obsolete anytime soon? i dont want this to happen anytime soon but ya what is the future of asm?
Post 14 Jan 2005, 18:57
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fasm9



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 439
fasm9
if you know c as to the ground, and also you knew asm.

then you will be fine.

i recommend "practical" assembly,
gcc, objdump, gdb, code navigator, gas(gnu assembler), and ARM processor.

in win32, vs.net and it's debugger.(*shudder*)

--
Post 14 Jan 2005, 22:00
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madmatt



Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 1045
Location: Michigan, USA
madmatt
Naaaa, I've been programming off and on in assembly for the past 20 odd years or so and all this time its death has been GREATLY exaggerated Evil or Very Mad . In fact, now is an EXCELLENT time to get into (Windows) assembly programming because of the EXCELLENT tools available now: FASM (of course!), Olly Debug, RadAsm, Masm Package, etc. Also the processors are more fun to program for now, with the addition of MMX, SSE, SSE2, and now SSE3. This is why I switched from DOS assembly just about a year ago to Windows (DirectX) programming, because of the EXCELLENT tools that I discovered are available! So take off the velvet gloves and put on those welding gloves and lets do some REAL programming Twisted Evil Very Happy

P.S. You can take a look at my DirectDraw examples in windows forum, just look for the Title "Update! Windows Game Programming for Dummies examples" or something close to it.
Post 14 Jan 2005, 23:12
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
assembly programming in DOS was bigger fun than in wondoze in protected mode, you are restricted to do funniest stuff.
Post 17 Jan 2005, 14:23
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ASHLEY4



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 376
Location: UK
ASHLEY4
I agree with you vid, that why a group of us are making a 32bit Dos, called
"Dos Extreme" or "DEX" for short Smile.
You can try a demo here: http://www.falconrybells.co.uk/
It was going to be the new "v2os" code name "v3os", but they wanted multi-tasking etc.

PS: I think asm has a good future.

\\\\||////
(@@)
ASHLEY4.

Batteries not included, Some assembly required.
Post 17 Jan 2005, 15:29
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
should it be running in real mode all-set to 32bit, or protected mode with everything allowed, or ring0 protected mode or how?
Post 17 Jan 2005, 16:18
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ASHLEY4



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 376
Location: UK
ASHLEY4
It runs in 32bit pmode ring0, upto 4GB memory, it comes with a full set of pmode ints, its got pmode drivers for floppy, cd etc, also support for vesa, the ints using int 40h instead of 21h, are all pmode using port etc, but the also support for switching to realmode and back, its singal tasking, the user program is loadered to 2mb and you are free to use from there to top of memory.
You can also load module for drivers.

Here is a simple hello world! prog.
Code:
;===============================;; hello                19/12/04 ;;===============================;; \\|//                                                  ; (@ @)                                                  ; ASHLEY4.                                               ; c:\fasm hello.asm hello.v2a                            ;===============================;use32ORG 0x200000        jmp   startmsg1:   db "hello world!", 0start: ;=========================; ; Display start message.                              ;=========================;        mov   esi,msg1        mov   al,0x00        mov   ah,0x09        int   40h        ret    


\\\\||////
(@@)
ASHLEY4.

Batteries not included, Some assembly required.
Post 17 Jan 2005, 16:48
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
nice
all segments are set to base 0 and all processes are mapped to 0x200000 address? Or is it done by different segment bases?
Post 17 Jan 2005, 16:57
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ASHLEY4



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 376
Location: UK
ASHLEY4
In realmode they are set up like this:
Code:
        xor   ebx,ebx       mov   bx,ds                                                  ; BX=segment     shl   ebx,4                                                  ; BX="linear" address of segment base  mov   eax,ebx mov   [sys_code_1 + 2],ax                                    ; set base address of 32-bit segments    mov   [sys_data_1 + 2],ax     mov   [Real_code_1 + 2],ax                                   ; set base address of 16-bit segments    mov   [Real_data_1 + 2],ax    shr   eax,16  mov   [sys_code_1 + 4],al     mov   [sys_data_1 + 4],al     mov   [Real_code_1 + 4],al    mov   [Real_data_1 + 4],al  mov   [sys_code_1 + 7],ah     mov   [sys_data_1 + 7],ah     mov   [Real_code_1 + 7],ah    mov   [Real_data_1 + 7],ah        add   ebx,gdt                                            ; EBX=linear address of gdt  mov   [gdtr + 2],ebx  add   ebx,idt - gdt                                    ; EBX=linear address of idt  mov   [idtr + 2],ebx    


We also have a linear descriptors,to make it easier to write to screen etc, do it this way means we can boot from dos, also we can switch back to realmode easily.
Why not join our forum Smile .
http://dex.7.forumer.com/

\\\\||////
(@@)
ASHLEY4.

Batteries not included, Some assembly required.
Post 17 Jan 2005, 18:05
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jas20



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 41
Location: Australia
jas20
Is it time? The forum has been revealed.

When DEX is released, will v3os have to be deleted. So far v2os related has disappeared of the face of my machine.

jas20 / jas2o
Post 18 Jan 2005, 00:23
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
first of all it will need DOS emulator to access plenty of apps. At least some basic, only DOS's int services.
Post 18 Jan 2005, 00:26
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ASHLEY4



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 376
Location: UK
ASHLEY4
@jas2o, Normal you would just need to delete kernel32.exe from the disk and put on the new kernel32.exe and thats it, but i made the boot sector boot a file called kernelv2.exe, so its best to reput the boot sector on the floppy this time, so we can get rid of the v2 bit.

@vid, If you want full dos support, there will be a floppy image i am making for jas2o you can use, its got freedos (about 100k) but it will run fasm, turbo pascal etc.
when you want 32bit DEX just type kernel32.exe and you will boot to DEX, you can also exit back to freedos too.

\\\\||////
(@@)
ASHLEY4.

Batteries not included, Some assembly required.
Post 18 Jan 2005, 03:26
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pelaillo
Missing in inaction


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 878
Location: Colombia
pelaillo
Let's me revive this thread about the old "future of asm" mith Smile

After a brief look at OpenSolaris source code released today, I've spot a good quantity of assembly code on it.

Assembly is well and kicking Wink
Post 14 Jun 2005, 21:11
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Big Red



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 43
Big Red
Assembly will die the day that man creates The Perfect Compiler. However, the only thing capable of creating The Perfect Compiler would be The Perfect Compiler. So there you go.
Post 26 Jun 2005, 23:29
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THEWizardGenius



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 382
Location: California, USA
THEWizardGenius
Most people will say "Assembly is already obsolete" if you ask them that question. Assembly is like machine language, but more understandable. Machine language is obsolete. So what's the "logical" conclusion? We FASM programmers, of course, disagree. To answer your question, we will always need assembly for something. HLL's can never do everything and who wants to use raw machine language? Assembly is for getting things done at the lowest level possible. Things you can't do in HLL's, you can probably do in assembly. (And vice versa - HLL's, as EVERYONE knows, will NEVER be obsolete.)
You HAVE to use at least some assembly in OS Development.
As an example, it is virtually impossible to write a boot loader (512 bytes) in any language other than assembly.
Once you write an OS, you write programs for your OS in assembly too (unless it uses a common executable format), because most HLL compilers compile into a certain commonly-used executable format. Of course, one of the first things you do is write an HLL compiler or interpreter for your OS.
Assembly is the best language for writing device drivers and other things.
Need a graphics-intensive routine? Do it in assembly, other languages (even C) are too slow.
As Big Red says above, only The Perfect Compiler can create The Perfect Compiler, and unless someone ever creates The Perfect Compiler, assembly is still very important.
We love assembly!
Post 27 Jun 2005, 01:03
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Micah II



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 5
Micah II
ASM is important for getting things done FAST and doing it with little overhead. And of course for all the people that want to know more about the internals of a pc ( like me Razz )

Nowadays ASM is considered as evil , inhuman and nerd-ish.... by the people that use VB and can only write hello world.

truth is, with all the hardware boundaries becoming further and further away, there is no longer a real need to optimize your code, and people use a higher level language.
For example the beloved Denthor of Asphyxia tutorials were ment to optimize Pascal code so it would run faster, I haven't really seen many tutorials or texts on mixing C and ASM for speed improvement, since most C programs run well enough on mid-end machines nowadays.

(gcc -O2 Wink )


ASM is mainly for the hardware that could use the optimisation due to its limits, i.e. cell phones, pocketpcs and game handhelds.

But for the PC, it's going into a coma.
Post 27 Jun 2005, 15:43
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rofflecakes



Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 1
rofflecakes
Assembly language will never die for the fact that it is needed when you want to debug / dissasemble / modify an already compiled prog. Ban me for saying this..but assembly language is what all crackers and hackers live by - unless they are script kiddies. Sure, they may use C++ to make their progs/cracks but Assembly is the only language they live by. Long LIVE ASM + INT3
Post 28 Jul 2005, 22:53
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comrade



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 1137
Location: Russian Federation
comrade
By 2010, ASM will be recognized and adopted by all professional programmers worldwide, because its extremely high portability, maintainability, abstraction, object-oriented capabalities, and most importantly, its ease of use.
Post 28 Jul 2005, 23:00
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MCD



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 604
Location: Germany
MCD
comrade wrote:
By 2010, ASM will be recognized and adopted by all professional programmers worldwide, because its extremely high portability, maintainability, abstraction, object-oriented capabalities, and most importantly, its ease of use.

I'm just hearint a gust of sarcasm in your writing Wink
Post 29 Jul 2005, 09:05
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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf
He missed a 0 at the end of the year.
Post 29 Jul 2005, 15:06
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