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I prefer to code for:
DOS
31%
 31%  [ 10 ]
Windows
53%
 53%  [ 17 ]
Linux
9%
 9%  [ 3 ]
BeOS
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
MenuetOS
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 32

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veach1



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 165
veach1
Just curious, for what OS people like to code more. I don`t mean the interest of learning new, but the pleasure of coding.

As for me I wish to learn codind under win32, but I feel more pleasure writing programs for DOS.

Concerning that our board twists around 5 OSes, I included only them.

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Post 29 Nov 2004, 14:49
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ASHLEY4



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 376
Location: UK
ASHLEY4
veach1, I agree with you, Dos is great to program for, but it would be even better to have a 32bit DOS, to program on, thats Y i am making my own 32bit pmode dos like OS. its going to be the new v2os
http://www.v2os.cx/
May be you could program for the new v2os, if you like dos you will love this OS. it will be even easier than Dos.
A test ver will be available in the next 2-3 weeks.

\\\\||////
(@@)
ASHLEY4.

Batteries not included, Some assembly required.


Last edited by ASHLEY4 on 30 Nov 2004, 02:54; edited 1 time in total
Post 29 Nov 2004, 17:18
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veach1



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 165
veach1
Quote:
it would be even better to have a 32bit DOS

Yesterday I tried DOS7.10 (has 32 bit support), but after running fasm.exe it told me that I can`t run fasm.exe in pmode. Don`t have time to solve it. Sad

Quote:
May be you could program for the new v2os, if you like dos you will love this OS. it will be even easier than Dos.

Sure I`ll try Smile
Post 29 Nov 2004, 19:48
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bubach



Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 340
Location: Trollhättan, Sweden
bubach
Can't believe people actually voted for Windows? I would like to learn it, but i prefer DOS.
In windows half of the code-size seems to be ugly API things.. Wink


Last edited by bubach on 13 Feb 2012, 15:10; edited 1 time in total
Post 30 Nov 2004, 09:01
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Vortex



Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 318
Vortex
bubach wrote:
Can´t beleive people actually voted for Windows? I would like to learn it, but i prefer DOS.
In windows half of the code-size seems to be ugly API things.. Wink


What you need to pay for coding in DOS is that you need to deal with the old 16-bit segmentation which makes everything more difficult. Smile

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Post 30 Nov 2004, 11:09
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veach1



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 165
veach1
Quote:
you need to deal with the old 16-bit segmentation

Since my first DOS program till now I never used more than one segment.

.com+optimisation is wery good mixture Wink
Post 30 Nov 2004, 12:21
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bubach



Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 340
Location: Trollhättan, Sweden
bubach
it's not that hard unless u use up more then 640kb...
[EDIT]and since i have a hard time filling 64kb in asm i could problably write quite a big game with great graphics in 640kb (if i had the time)..


Last edited by bubach on 13 Feb 2012, 15:12; edited 1 time in total
Post 30 Nov 2004, 14:14
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ASHLEY4



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 376
Location: UK
ASHLEY4
veach1, is right look at TETROS form the 512b compo, if that is what can bedone in 512byes, a segment is well enough for most dos programs.
\\\\||////
(@@)
ASHLEY4.

Batteries not included, Some assembly required.
Post 30 Nov 2004, 17:14
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Vortex



Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 318
Vortex
veach1 wrote:
.com+optimisation is wery good mixture Wink


veach1,

A Dos box cannot be compared with the capabilities of the Win32 graphical interface and today's world is not limited to 64 Kb.

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Post 30 Nov 2004, 18:07
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pelaillo
Missing in inaction


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 878
Location: Colombia
pelaillo
Yes, today's world needs you to buy more and more RAM and disk space for a lot of stuff you don't need/use.
Post 30 Nov 2004, 19:58
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veach1



Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 165
veach1
Quote:
if that is what can bedone in 512byes

512b is not a limit, I attached 256b tetris, released at Flag2oo2 demo party.

Quote:
A Dos box cannot be compared with the capabilities of the Win32 graphical interface and today's world is not limited to 64 Kb.


Smile

Of course not limited and of course can`t be compared.
But...
For a moment try to imagine the size of any simlpe win32 program if it is considered as standalone binary able to run without OS platform. But very powerfull programs can be done using only BIOS services and in addition they`ll remain very small standalone binaries.

IMO: Attraction of windowized interface is just simplification and visualization of computer science. No, I`m not telling it`s bad. For example Visual Basic, Builder or Delphi, they just making programming fast and easy, making it not so thinkable process. It is very convinient for business, where speed of production directly influences on income of a corporation. I`m telling about programming as a BrainArt. Under windows I can`t feel myself free to create everything I want. But under DOS I feel free to use any hardvare resource on my machine. I prefer to control the codeflow inside CPU rather than trust it to WinAPIs.


Description:
Download
Filename: mzyz-01.zip
Filesize: 4.29 KB
Downloaded: 378 Time(s)


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Post 30 Nov 2004, 20:14
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Vortex



Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 318
Vortex
veach1,

Many things changed since Microsoft released Win95 and millions of peoples discovered the power of GUI operating systems. There are many programmers who enjoys coding for the Win32 platform. You can create win32 apps which are also BrainArt, just have a look at John's Fresh editor or KetilO's RadAsm. At the end, coding mainly for DOS is your own personal choice. With today's RAM capacities even at a minimum of a 32 Mb ( or lesser ) an asm executable of 2,5/3 Kb doesn't disturb the majority of peoples. The graphical interfaces helped a lot of peoples to use personal computers, that's why computer scientists focussed on the GUI idea beginning from the 70's

Finally, the question why API's are not suitable for you is a matter of operating system development which is a completely different topic, the future is not for humans who desires to live with the nostalgy of past times.

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Post 30 Nov 2004, 20:21
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ASHLEY4



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 376
Location: UK
ASHLEY4
Vortex, this the spec of the XBOX
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
While the Xbox kernel is based on the NT/Windows 2000 kernel, it's extremely lean. There's no virtual memory paging, and only a single process is allowed (though that process can spawn multiple threads). The entire kernel fits into 150KB--far less than the 1MB original goal.
The development library is polling-based rather than event driven (unlike Windows). This was due directly to feedback from game developers.
The game owns the hardware--it runs in ring 0, and has direct access to all hardware (including CPU and graphics).
Memory allocation is the responsibility of the app--there's no front-end memory allocation.
While the APIs were familiar (Direct3D, DirectSound), the back ends were different, and highly tuned to the Xbox hardware. However, the input API is different from DirectInput on the PC.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
This seem closer to to Dos then XP and you can not say the xbox is past .

PS: Other then being 32bit, it very Dos like Wink.

\\\\||////
(@@)
ASHLEY4.

Batteries not included, Some assembly required.
Post 30 Nov 2004, 21:23
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Vortex



Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 318
Vortex
ASHLEY4, good attempt but I guess the majority of FASM users prefers GUI programming for Windows. Smile

...and can I use Xbox to do my calculations at work? Smile

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Post 30 Nov 2004, 21:37
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pelaillo
Missing in inaction


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 878
Location: Colombia
pelaillo
Vortex wrote:
...and can I use Xbox to do my calculations at work? Smile

There is a possibility of installing linux on it...
Post 01 Dec 2004, 00:43
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ASHLEY4



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 376
Location: UK
ASHLEY4
Vortex, It would be good for calculating how long it would take you to get the sack, for playing Xbox games at work Laughing.

\\\\||////
(@@)
ASHLEY4.

Batteries not included, Some assembly required.
Post 01 Dec 2004, 02:17
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rea



Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 92
rea
I have a sserie of questions....

Quote:
polling system

I dont understand that concept, also what other types of systems there are? can give a guide?

Im in the side that the enviroment impact much the design of a solution, you need must know the enviroment first (pheraphs you know who I am).

A good design will lead you to good programms, altought when you define a system, you are also defining is set (unions, sets, etc) you are defining the space in what this system can evolve, pheraphs you will let out some things, or you will restrict much.

Altought a good design not mean design only a good GUI, or a good API, it have more deep than that "simple" (not really) concepts.

For example, I consider that to be fast, you need make more things that dosent include much the switch between rings, because like you say, all programms run in ring 0, also if I'm correct the exokernel have the performanfe impact because there are not much switches from ring protections.



What should be tacked from this two examples is that pheraphs HW try to make some work on context switching, but because two diferent things show that in fact they are poor in performance, pheraphs will be good that processors stop doing things that in fact they can't do well or have a good performance, some others things should be investigated, because that bad performance at context switch impacts in a real factor of speed, an thus there come exokernel, run in rin 0 all the programms and others solutions for do this things more fast in the side of SW.




Like you see, the enviroment still impact the desing of a OS, kernel, etc. Pheraphs the society impact in how to take new ideas and such, all have relation with all (event that you dont knowit), think more in depth about the comunication (for me the energy, magnetism, time, etc... is communication) and that is, the things that are not shared are lost.
Post 01 Dec 2004, 03:37
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ASHLEY4



Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Posts: 376
Location: UK
ASHLEY4
Thing about this you have a processor, that cost a lot of $$$$$$, you need to do lot of thing at the same time (or nearly at the same time) So you come up with multitasking.
That was the past. what should we be doing now that the same processor cost's just $$, we should be using multi processors, giving programs there own processors, these need not be fast, look at the differenc a good graphic card makes.
Then things will speed up Wink.

\\\\||////
(@@)
ASHLEY4.

Batteries not included, Some assembly required.
Post 01 Dec 2004, 18:01
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rea



Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 92
rea
But I think Intel or AMD will not cnsider stop suporting this things and let them to Software? or at less tht there is a powerfull demostration that they are doing it shelldoom (is like is writed?)

Yes, a good point is graphic card, but how many can be "separated" process, for example, I read that there will exist a graphic card specially designed for work with raytracing, then you have a programm that can request to normall card or this one, or you can have two monitors running in one DOOM and in the other a raytracing scenario....

Anyway, hope they if take the case dosent diversificate to much like Linux Wink. hehehehe (I dont know what to take.. chocolate, cofee?, the problem is not to choice, but you need prove them all Razz)
Post 01 Dec 2004, 18:39
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Matrix



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1171
Location: Overflow
Matrix
Howdy,

; 256 byte tetris game by megasys
; <megasys@intro.hu>
;
; Released at Flag2oo2 party (Hungary)
; http://flag2002.demoscene.hu
;
; Missing features:
; - game over check
; - quick drop

; Matrix reduced size to 249 bytes
; -Added game over check code (7 bytes)

ps.: the author is hungarian too Smile


Description: Original 256 byte tetris, included improved version
Download
Filename: Tetrisz.zip
Filesize: 6.21 KB
Downloaded: 367 Time(s)

Post 01 Dec 2004, 23:36
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