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rc



Joined: 03 Nov 2019
Posts: 51
Location: Germany
rc
I was thinking it might be a good idea to overhoul the entire fasm website and move it to Github pages and give it a more modern look (Github pages is for free). Also the documentation could be hosted there and could be reorganized as a wiki. This would make it easier to browse through it. I could make the new website for you if you like and also the reorganization of the docs.

I think the landing page should also contain a link to the discord server so more people would potentially join it.
Post 26 Mar 2021, 10:12
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 18071
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
All those sites require too much JS for no good reason IMO. Sad

Discord is worse: puts ads in everything (unless you pay), is 100% JS, and doesn't give you the community data, they keep control it all. Yuck. SadSad
Post 26 Mar 2021, 11:16
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rc



Joined: 03 Nov 2019
Posts: 51
Location: Germany
rc
Js is the language of the web and required for good ux design. I think fasm could have a bigger community when all the stuff around it would be more modern/polished and develope with the time. And a big community is what drives the project and gets the product out of the niche at the end. Fasm is awesome and I really think it could be more distributed, known and used if the presentation around it would be better. Website/community channels like discord/ vscode plug in (I could do it) / tutorials and all that stuff. I mean Mr. Grysztar has a YouTube channel with really good videos about fasm, but it has liturally no clicks.. so ask yourself why? With a big community, Mr. Grysztar wouldn't even have to make a Youtube channel with tutorials for the community, because there would already exist tons of videos and tutorials made by the community for the community. I think that's all really sad because as I said, fasm is awesome and all the effort and hard work Mr. Grysztar has put into fasm, it should be more known.
The website looks old and the first impression it leaves is: "that looks old, probably fasm isn't up to date anymore".. and a potentual new user wouldn't probably bother reading any further about fasm. Even the nasm website not being much, looks more appealing.

I would suggest:
- overhouling the website (especially the landing page)
- Add obvious links to all community channels (Youtube/Forum/Twitter etc) on the landing page
- The Youtube link could be done through an embedded video
- Overhouling the documentation in form of a wiki
- Present the latest stable build of fasm on the landing page so a new user sees that it is still activly developed (this can be done via github webhooks to automatically update the webpage when a commit/push to the fasm repo has been made)

We could start a tutorial series like the one for nasm.https://www.tutorialspoint.com/assembly_programming/index.htm
And give a quick link to it on the landing page à Getting started. This series can also be hosted on Github as a seperate repo page.

Unfortunately i am far from beeing a pro in assembly and fasm, i am just a fullstack software and web developer.
I could "translate" the nasm tutorial to fasm, but some pros would have to read it to make sure it's correct.
Post 26 Mar 2021, 12:00
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4252
Location: Now
edfed
everything is old compared to the future.

what is lacking is effectivelly a big set of ready to use in production projects and libs.

i use a lot fasm in any domain, for it's ease to generate binary files.

for example, it is very easy, far more easy, to generate a make file using fasm than any wizard from any IDE.

you just have to make a convenient template, and use fasm to compile a set of strategic macro to generate all the boring bunch needed by various HLL compiler.

i also use fasm to generate test files. and the best, i use fasm to code easy and fast POC to validate the goals with the client before to use any C++ framework or IDE like QTCreator, visual c++, etc.
Post 26 Mar 2021, 14:07
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rc



Joined: 03 Nov 2019
Posts: 51
Location: Germany
rc
edfed wrote:
what is lacking is effectivelly a big set of ready to use in production projects and libs.
Right, and this comes when there is a big community that will make such projects and libs.

edfed wrote:
everything is old compared to the future.
I am not comparing to the future but to the present. Smile

edfed wrote:
i use a lot fasm in any domain, for it's ease to generate binary files.
for example, it is very easy, far more easy, to generate a make file using fasm than any wizard from any IDE.
you just have to make a convenient template, and use fasm to compile a set of strategic macro to generate all the boring bunch needed by various HLL compiler.
i also use fasm to generate test files. and the best, i use fasm to code easy and fast POC to validate the goals with the client before to use any C++ framework or IDE like QTCreator, visual c++, etc.
Yes that's what you know when you are into fasm, but as a newcomer, you don't know all this stuff and what fasm is capable of.

The only thing you see is an old looking website, and the chance is high that you move on when you see it. Smile
Post 26 Mar 2021, 14:28
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DimonSoft



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 937
Location: Belarus
DimonSoft
Who cares if something is “old-looking” when it opens on every kettle and iron in the world even if you’re lost deep in the forest?
Post 26 Mar 2021, 15:50
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1607
Furs
Actually most quality software, especially open source, has "old-looking" websites so if you know what you're looking for, this would be a good sign for FASM. Most GNU software is the same.

Bloated javascript websites with giant text and buttons usually tell me such software is incredibly bloated, slow, imports a million libraries and dependencies and is written by people with very little programming knowledge, and just pull out those millions of libraries together and think they're "developers".
Post 27 Mar 2021, 13:13
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rc



Joined: 03 Nov 2019
Posts: 51
Location: Germany
rc
I didn't mean to offend someone. I was just thinking how could I help out to push the project. When you're googling for assembly language projects and/or tutorials, liturally everything on the internet is written with nasm or gas.
There must be a reason for that. Smile there is even more stuff available for masm.
This is because they are better "marketed" and "presented", not because they are better assemblers.
I like fasm the most, but a newb when it comes to assembly. And a newb in assembly is driven to use nasm over fasm because there are loads of materials and a big community behind it, therefore it's easier for self learners, as there is more material and projects a newb can peek into and play around and all this stuff.
For example I have written a complete text editor from scratch with loading/saving/textsearch warning when closing an unsaved document and all that stuff. For me that's a big achievement as a newb and a good project for learning. But this was only possible because of the resources out there. In fasm this would probably take me ages.
And that's what I find sad about it. There is not even one project tutorial out there that walks you from the start to the end of a project. A newb quits using fasm and moves on with nasm for example and will probably then stick with it.
Anyway, I like fasm the most.
Post 28 Mar 2021, 06:27
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 18071
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
MASM stood for Microsoft ASM. It had lots of money behind it.
NASM is written in C. So it has lots of C people behind it.

I doubt the popularity of each is anything to do with the website design. I expect it is the other way around. They became popular and supported by a large community, so the websites got "upgraded" later.

I'm glad you don't make the mistake of conflating popularity with utility, usefulness or goodness. People looking for a good assembler (in whatever way they judge "good") will know if MASM or NASM or FASM meets their criteria. If MASM or NASM is shit for them then it makes no difference how fantastic the website is, people will look for a better alternative.
Post 28 Mar 2021, 08:03
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DimonSoft



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 937
Location: Belarus
DimonSoft
revolution wrote:
I'm glad you don't make the mistake of conflating popularity with utility, usefulness or goodness. People looking for a good assembler (in whatever way they judge "good") will know if MASM or NASM or FASM meets their criteria. If MASM or NASM is shit for them then it makes no difference how fantastic the website is, people will look for a better alternative.

Stop spying on me! Smile
Post 28 Mar 2021, 12:04
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