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DEMON



Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 26
Location: Republic of Belarus
DEMON
Hello!!!
What are you think about future of windows programming with ASM?
What about f##ing .NET technology and LongHorn? Sad

P. S.: I'm not a windows programmer, I use asm to programming microcontrollers.
Post 27 Aug 2004, 20:48
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pelaillo
Missing in inaction


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 878
Location: Colombia
pelaillo
I believe in the future of assembly, is the future of windows that is not so clear...
...it may seem a typical trolling, but it is not. MS is giving the advice of not longer support win32api and imposing in many ways the use of their technology as the only way to interface to the operating system. In other words, they want to convert all programmers in scripters at the cost of performance.

For certain fields this cost is unacceptable and the lack of alternatives means to migrate to another development platform.
Something that have already happened in *serious* realtime applications and is happening in embedded systems as well.
Post 27 Aug 2004, 21:24
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proveren



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 68
Location: Bulgaria
proveren
In the beginning I thought that writing window apps in asm is a slow process and c++ was the answer. Now I think that coding win32 in asm is a little bit faster since you dont have to deal with pointer and variable casts.

MY MAIN POINT: ASM's weakness is the portability, but since win32 runs only on machines with x86 processors, win32asm is going to remain solid until there is Windows.
Post 28 Aug 2004, 07:22
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DEMON



Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 26
Location: Republic of Belarus
DEMON
I think, that the future of ASM is not a problem of language, but problem of programmers.
Programming with VB (for example) is simple way, but if you like assembler, then we will programm BEST programms.
Generally, asm-coders knows processor better, then scripters Very Happy
Post 28 Aug 2004, 07:59
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scientica
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Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 689
Location: Linköping, Sweden
scientica
Quote:
I believe in the future of assembly, is the future of windows that is not so clear...

I must strongly object to that Smile (not just because I'm a linux zealot but:)
There is linux and MenuetOS to name two examples of where (f)asm has a/is the future.
We are still needed to make use of the latest extensions of the CPU, eg, MMX and /SSE[1-3]?/ - I think for instance gcc supports some of it's instructions, not sure how or if it does parallising though. -- Stil carefully crafted asm is better than compiler ouput, as you unlike the compiler can think in different patterns - the compiler just uses the instructions that it has been programmed to recongnize as the best for a certain condition. (though it might have eaiser in some perspectives, like better predicting how code will work in piplelines if it will stall, and how great the probablillity of an branch is)
Post 28 Aug 2004, 09:30
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
asm has a future. The more M$ restricts us, then more people start using alternatives (linux etc.)
Post 28 Aug 2004, 09:43
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Foamplast



Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Saratov, Russia
Foamplast
I have written medium size project both in C and NASM. I can really advise anyone to use assembler. The speed is low only if you don't know how to do some common things. If you've learn it, the speed is even higher then when using HLL. And the quality of code is better, though C compilers now can produce VERY good code.

As to .NET, I think that we have to examine the Windows system. Firstly, 32-bit programs are to run on any Windows. Secondly, .NET is probably just a front-end based on WindowsAPI.

Some guys from wasm.ru had carried out the experiments, thay say Windows2003 has a usual kernel with well-known dlls (kernel32, user32, etc.). But this could be an emulation of old system (I don't sure).
Post 30 Aug 2004, 21:36
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scientica
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Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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Location: Linköping, Sweden
scientica
btw, a serious question. Does the (newest) MASM allow anything but driver development for windows?
Post 31 Aug 2004, 09:40
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Foamplast



Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Saratov, Russia
Foamplast
I have a lot of examples for MASM which are not related to driver development. Generally, any assembler should allow you to write any applications, because the assembly language is a substitution for machine code and any other program is compiled into the machine code.

But I don't like MASM. It is very complex for me to understand. I perfer FASM.
Post 31 Aug 2004, 21:50
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pelaillo
Missing in inaction


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
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pelaillo
Maybe the assembler allow to write anything. But what about the (aberrating) EULA?
Post 01 Sep 2004, 03:03
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proveren



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 68
Location: Bulgaria
proveren
However, I think you would make a much better impression to an employer nowadays if you say that your favourite language is C++ rather than ASM (although the second one suggest deeper knowledge in computer science).
Post 01 Sep 2004, 07:12
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scientica
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Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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scientica
proveren, I think the employer would prefer one who knows C++ well but prefers asm over one that knows C++ well but doesn't know asm - so I think knowing asm is a great thing to put in the CV Smile
Post 01 Sep 2004, 17:48
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Foamplast



Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Saratov, Russia
Foamplast
Well, the most important thing that makes the knowledge and usage of C necessary is buyer's anxiety that they may have problems with finding a suitable person for modification assembly language sources in the future. On the other hand, C is widely used, if you have C sources you can easily find a person to modify the program.

The portability is the second thing, but not important in Windows' world. Windows mainly runs on PC's, that's why writing unportable programs in assembly language is enough.

Generally speaking, every processor architecture has it's own strengths and using well-portable language can negate them.
Post 01 Sep 2004, 19:29
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scientica
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Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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scientica
>The portability is the second thing, but not important in Windows' world.
as for every service pack a little less backwards compabillity(/portabillity)... right?
Post 01 Sep 2004, 20:46
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Foamplast



Joined: 07 May 2004
Posts: 36
Location: Saratov, Russia
Foamplast
I mean portability across machines (processors). Windows runs on IA-32, Itanium and AMD64. IA-32 is used most widely. I hope in the future AMD64 will be a common place.
Post 01 Sep 2004, 22:52
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Adam Kachwalla



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 150
Adam Kachwalla
..


Last edited by Adam Kachwalla on 07 Mar 2013, 01:57; edited 1 time in total
Post 16 Oct 2008, 04:29
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drhowarddrfine



Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Posts: 535
drhowarddrfine
Ataway, Adam. If you search hard enough, I'm sure you can dig up some threads from before 2004, too.
Post 16 Oct 2008, 10:43
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asmcoder



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 784
asmcoder
[content deleted]


Last edited by asmcoder on 14 Aug 2009, 14:55; edited 1 time in total
Post 16 Oct 2008, 12:27
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3044
Location: vpcmipstrm
bitRAKE
Assembly exists because the hardware presents a configurable interface - that interface could be Java/DotNET bytecode and it would still be assembly language. As long as efficiency of system resources is a concern people will code in assembly language. Even a 1% improvement in compiler code generation, or a 10% improvement in a specific application can have broad effects.

I would even argue that some people have a natural tendacy to be better at low-level work than others (be this a good thing™ or bad thing™), but I'm a biased asshole (talk about crack). Razz

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Post 16 Oct 2008, 19:10
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