flat assembler
Message board for the users of flat assembler.

Index > MenuetOS > Bug in MenuetOS 0.77

Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author
Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
SPTH



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 91
SPTH
Hi!
There is a bug in MenuetOS 0.77 pre 4.8+! (version 0.77 pre 2.8 is still bugfree)

Well, about the bug:
SYSTREE shows false data, if I want to see HARDDISK.
There are two things that could be happen:
1. Entry: .
2. Entry: ..
3. Entry: FILE0000.CHK
and no more entrys

Second Thing that could be are totally random and silly signs!
That Error just occure at Windows XP, i've also tested at my WIN 98 computer, but there is no error.

I checked function 58 out, (/HARDDISK/1) and the data is also false there.

I load MenuetOS via harddisk-boot!
Disk: 0.77 - pre 2.8 and HD: 0.77 - pre 4.8 there is no bug
Disk: 0.77 - pre 4.8 and HD: 0.77 - pre 4.8 there IS the bug!

I hope I explained everything enough!

greets, ...


Last edited by SPTH on 25 Jul 2004, 17:39; edited 1 time in total
Post 24 Jul 2004, 15:51
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
daneel



Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 56
daneel
Do you use NTFS partition on XP ?
Post 24 Jul 2004, 15:57
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SPTH



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 91
SPTH
No, of corse not!
I'm using FAT32, and it worked till Menuet 0.77 pre 4.8+
Post 24 Jul 2004, 16:00
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
SPTH



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 91
SPTH
By The Way: Menuet will have an AV-program soon, Ville told me!

greets, ...

PS: the bug is still there...
Post 25 Jul 2004, 16:43
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Gomer73



Joined: 29 Nov 2003
Posts: 151
Gomer73
Does AV stand for ant-virus?
If so, how can you have an anti-virus program if there aren't any viruses yet?
Would it just prevent files from changed?
Post 25 Jul 2004, 18:12
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
fasm9



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 439
fasm9
yeah, disclosure is always good thing.

--
PS: strange, no one mentioned that Ville left the MenuetOS project.
best wish to him, hope any time to back to MenuetOS.
Post 25 Jul 2004, 22:29
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
asmdemon



Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 97
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
asmdemon
um, just to add a point about anti-virus programs.

Viruses exist, usually, on systems where the people are careless and unaware of their function. On menuetos, most people know how and what viruses are. In addition, most of us here supply source code to not only allow others improve such programs, but to eleminate such fear. How many programs do you run that you either didn't compile yourself, or didn't come from a trusted source. I would never supply a program without source code because i know there are mallicious people whos intent is only to cripple your machine for kicks. Since MenuetOs isn't on the common persons computer, yet; also, there just isn't anyone trying to target this Os. Nessessity is the mother of invention, without viruses, there is no need for anti-virus protection.

Unintentional viruses, however, are not the product of malicious intent, but rather unseen bugs in the software.
Post 26 Jul 2004, 00:37
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
SPTH



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 91
SPTH
Gomer73, fasm9, asmdemon:
well, yes, mmmhh... you are not really right.
there is still a proof-of-concept virus for MenuetOS: http://hq.mcafeeasap.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=126786
Post 27 Jul 2004, 05:39
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
djca



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 21
djca
Here you can get more info about the virus.
Post 27 Jul 2004, 13:34
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
roticv



Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 374
Location: Singapore
roticv
Why do I get this feeling that SPTH wrote it?
Post 27 Jul 2004, 13:56
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger Reply with quote
DennisCGc



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 24
Location: Zoetermeer, The Netherlands
DennisCGc
Maybe it has something to do with the link ? Wink
http://www.spth.de.vu/
Post 27 Jul 2004, 15:07
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger Reply with quote
pelaillo
Missing in inaction


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 878
Location: Colombia
pelaillo
Actually I find his research very useful for MenuetOS developement.
Post 27 Jul 2004, 15:13
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger Reply with quote
SPTH



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 91
SPTH
Yes, I wrote it! And I also think that it's useful for the developing of the next versions as it shows how easy it is to make a maleware for MenuetOS. (for now, you just can dissamble the file for checking out it's behaviour - the descripted source with a long article about that will be released in our group-magazine [www.rrlf.de] in some time)

As I said, it would be of much value to release an Anti-Virus program for MenuetOS!

greets, ...

btw: the bug is STILL there!!!
Post 28 Jul 2004, 15:53
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
bloglite



Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 109
Location: East Tennessee U.S.A.
bloglite
Hi All,

"malware"

Whether the need for an AV program or not .

Producers of malicious software of any type are NOT helpful.

If it is so easy to manipulate the code to produce a virus then why not use your talents to resolve the "bug" you so desperately want to be rid of.

BTW how long does it take to write a virus for MenuetOS and what action does it perform?

Do you provide a removal method ?

Any documentation?

Do you work for McAfee or Symantec etc..?

I could be wrong but even the AV program itself could be considered a virus as it is replicated by means of a need produced by a conceived threat.

If the threat was never produced then the resultant program would not be needed.

Trying to make sense of it all, Mark
Post 28 Jul 2004, 16:38
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
SPTH



Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 91
SPTH
1.) If it is so easy to manipulate the code to produce a virus then why not use your talents to resolve the "bug" you so desperately want to be rid of.

Writing viruses is my hobby, and not bug searching. i use my knowledge to earn money in my real time.

2.) BTW how long does it take to write a virus for MenuetOS and what action does it perform?
i had to code and reaseach for that ~50-100h! Action: spreading (infecting files) as most viruses do!

3.) Do you provide a removal method ?
For that virus, a simple sting comparing would be enought!

4.) Any documentation?
Yes, they are still finished, but not released! The article (15 pages) about MenuetOS-infection will be released in our group magazine!
And there is no AV-doc for menuetos!

5.) Do you work for McAfee or Symantec etc..?
No!

6.) If the threat was never produced then the resultant program would not be needed.

That's not true, as I coded the virus, released the binary at my homepage, and sent it to several AV-researchers and Ville!

greets, ...
Post 28 Jul 2004, 16:58
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
bloglite



Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 109
Location: East Tennessee U.S.A.
bloglite
Your response to Item 6 is the Most illogical explanation I ever heard.

May you receive all the money or mal-rewards you deserve.

In my opinion your hobby is a questionable venture and one that

should be curtailed at every opportunity.

Like I said I may be wrong.

Anyone here like virii other than our hobbiest here?


G'day, Mark
Post 28 Jul 2004, 17:18
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
People writing (and, even worse, distributing) malware should be put to justice (or eternal rest...). Even "non-destructive" virii do harm to a system, and please save all the excuses - virus-writing is bad.
Post 28 Jul 2004, 18:03
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
Gomer73



Joined: 29 Nov 2003
Posts: 151
Gomer73
50-100 hours spent to write a virus.
Wish I had that much free time.

I think some of the answers to the questions are obvious. To write something that destroys something is simple, to write something that works is something much tougher.

My interest in viruses was to find out how computers work. Since menuet is all open source, this need isn't fulfilled with viruses.

When an operating system is not fully developed it is easy to make it not work, the tough thing is to make it work.

I don't know where SPTH would expect people to get his program from. I can imagine what his description would be "This program does nothing, but after you run it menuet won't run as well, until you reboot the computer anyway." Oh my God, we better download his anti-virus program right away, or press the reset button on the computer; either one will do the job, but the second option is less buggy and far more efficient. It is ironic I think that the anti-virus program has potential to do more damage than the virus itself. I don't know if SPTH is writing the anti-virus software, but he already mentioned bug searching is not his hobby, writing viruses is, so an av-program would probably be pretty buggy.

I guess it is no difference from sales persons. Create a need and then create the programs to satisfy that need. But since menuet is GPL, I am not sure of how it applies here because all it does is allow the creator to waste additional programming time.

I don't know if we can learn much from the virus either. It is quite easy to add a program to every file. The file structure is simple. I guess it would continue to use up ram-disk space until the ramdisk is out of memory, but I don't see what the purpose of that would be, except to make people that use menuet for something useful mad. And this would only happen if the program was run in the first place. I guess the virus maker could infect a useful program and upload it, but most people here get the source code anyway, so a recompile would trash the virus.

Seems like an excercise in futility to me, used to give somebody an excuse to program, I think SPTH should go outside and play some sports.

...Gomer73
Post 28 Jul 2004, 18:03
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
pelaillo
Missing in inaction


Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 878
Location: Colombia
pelaillo
bloglite wrote:
Producers of malicious software of any type are NOT helpful.

Thiefts, assasins, warlords are NOT helpful to mankind. Sadly enough they exist and as long as you cannot guarantee a method to avoid evil in every single person, you need to learn how to take care of.

Putting the head inside the sand is not a solution nor the negation of reality. And giving that I am not interested in research about virus writting nor had the time to do it, having a virus writer that wants to help to tight security on Menuet is a GOOD thing.

IMHO an antivirus is not a solution, medicin worst than sickness. Why? Compare FreeBSD vs. Windows and you got my feeling Wink

Again: virus are BAD things, but if you cannot avoid them, you need to learn how to avoid to do damages on your system.
Post 28 Jul 2004, 18:32
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger Reply with quote
bloglite



Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 109
Location: East Tennessee U.S.A.
bloglite
[quote="pelaillo"][quote="bloglite"]Producers of malicious software of any type are NOT helpful.[/quote]

Thiefts, assasins, warlords are NOT helpful to mankind.

Add to the list "one who writes a virus when one did not exist."

Hobby.

Right !

My right to disagree.

I rest.

Mark
Post 28 Jul 2004, 20:17
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

< Last Thread | Next Thread >
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Copyright © 1999-2020, Tomasz Grysztar. Also on GitHub, YouTube, Twitter.

Website powered by rwasa.