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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
revolution wrote:
Back in the "great OS debate" thread I mentioned that without the hardware manufacturers help we can't fix this. Ever.


Idealy, FOSS OS like Linux will also run on FOSS hardware.
Well, I think we are not that yet. Still need much work to do. Smile
Post 04 Jun 2017, 11:48
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1470
Furs
There's no such thing as FOSS hardware unless you can compile/build it yourself.

How do you know the source code for what you got out of the factory isn't embedded with hidden backdoors and such if you didn't? It's like asking someone else to compile your source code; he could inject it with whatever he wanted.

In fact I find it worse than normal "closed source" hardware, because with normal hardware at least people know and suspect it of having backdoors. A hidden backdoor with most people not even thinking it's there by default ("because it's open source") is much worse.

When I find out about a backdoor, the immediate concern for me isn't how to patch it, but how long did you have it undetected and what it could have done during that time.
Post 04 Jun 2017, 12:46
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
Something like these:
Open-source computing hardware
Free hardware designs

I imagine FOSS hardware will ease driver development, because the specs are open and everyone with OS knowledge can practically contribute.
Therefore, you don't have to rely 100% on the manufacturer support.

Hmm but maybe I'm simplifying the issue?
Smile
Post 04 Jun 2017, 13:40
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system error



Joined: 01 Sep 2013
Posts: 671
system error
I'd really love to see GNU C to become illegal on PCs that have BIOS (non-free, closed software) installed on it. Let's see how the FSF dudes live up to their own (double) standards Very Happy
Post 04 Jun 2017, 19:22
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
system error wrote:
I'd really love to see GNU C to become illegal on PCs that have BIOS (non-free, closed software) installed on it. Let's see how the FSF dudes live up to their own (double) standards Very Happy
The EFI and UEFI might be what you are thinking of here? With the requirement for a signed boot chain things like Linux and BSD can be excluded from running.

I actually like the idea of a signed boot chain, but I absolutely deplore the current implementations where external companies (i.e. MS) hold all the signing keys. I'd prefer to have my keys (and only my keys) in the TPM and sign my own boot records and drivers. And until that happens I refuse to enable a TPM like device. The talk above about FOSH is pertinent here when a TPM could potentially allow any number of 3rd parties access with hidden alternate keys inside.
Post 04 Jun 2017, 20:04
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system error



Joined: 01 Sep 2013
Posts: 671
system error
revolution wrote:
With the requirement for a signed boot chain things like Linux and BSD can be excluded from running.


So be it. Linux and BSD are hacked/reversed products anyway. They don't deserve no key.
Post 04 Jun 2017, 22:14
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
system error wrote:
They don't deserve no key.
Double negative, again?

Wink
Post 05 Jun 2017, 01:57
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
there should be open source module based laptop building, we are wasting too much resources, it just damn wasting an old laptop with ddr2 cannot be upgraded to ddr3, one best battery module cross brands, the motherboard should be module based, you buy hdmi addon module if you need hdmi, wifi, lan, processor, screen,

people don't care wasting resources, because people simply don't care,

we should have open source car, bike, house, food, drinks, etc,
it doesn't makes sense why we let companies, to mess with our essential stuffs, Laughing
Post 05 Jun 2017, 02:39
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system error



Joined: 01 Sep 2013
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system error
YONG wrote:
system error wrote:
They don't deserve no key.
Double negative, again?

Wink


I don't know why I feel so syntactically safe everytime you're in the house.
Post 05 Jun 2017, 03:17
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
one best battery module cross brands
Exactly! If so, revolution will have no more excuses for sticking to those 18650 cells. Haha ...

Wink
Post 05 Jun 2017, 03:23
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system error



Joined: 01 Sep 2013
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system error
sleepsleep wrote:
there should be open source module based laptop building, we are wasting too much resources, it just damn wasting an old laptop with ddr2 cannot be upgraded to ddr3, one best battery module cross brands, the motherboard should be module based, you buy hdmi addon module if you need hdmi, wifi, lan, processor, screen,

people don't care wasting resources, because people simply don't care,

we should have open source car, bike, house, food, drinks, etc,
it doesn't makes sense why we let companies, to mess with our essential stuffs, Laughing


With FSF, it's like subscribing to paid cable TV services but you just can't watch your favorite channels just yet until some guys from the FSF hack it for you to make it officially 'free'. That's the general idea with FSF's version of 'free'. You're paying for products but you're the bad guy for using the software that comes along with it. In other sense, it's called extortions.
Post 05 Jun 2017, 03:24
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
people don't care wasting resources, because people simply don't care,
Yes, I do. But I would not take it to the extreme -- like holding on to a 2003 laptop.

Wink
Post 05 Jun 2017, 03:26
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
system error wrote:
I don't know why I feel so syntactically safe everytime you're in the house.
In what house? We are corresponding with each other on a message board!

BTW, better write "every time".

Wink
Post 05 Jun 2017, 03:30
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
YONG wrote:
sleepsleep wrote:
one best battery module cross brands
Exactly! If so, revolution will have no more excuses for sticking to those 18650 cells. Haha ...
The reason I prefer the 18650 cells is because they are standard and easy to get. If instead there was a standard battery module (which there isn't BTW) then I would be extremely pleased, since that would allow me to replace it whenever I pleased without having rely on just one manufacturer's proprietary design.

I don't understand why you call it an 'excuse'. It is a practical matter of not being locked into a single supplier for a consumable part. Too many times I've seen people with the battery lasting only a few minutes but everything else working fine. But they can't replace the battery because the design has changed many times over and obsoleted it. Their only option is a whole new system. That is just stupid IMO. But I'm sure the manufacturers love it. The average consumer seems to assume it is normal and never really question it as long as they see the latest new shiny and their dead battery makes for a good excuse to buy an entire new system.
Post 05 Jun 2017, 04:17
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
revolution wrote:
I don't understand why you call it an 'excuse'.
Like it or not, the technological trend is to manufacture laptops that are compact, lightweight, and energy-efficient. Those thin, flat lithium polymer batteries for smartphones, tablets, and laptops are bound to be the future. That's why I call your practice of sticking to those bulky, removable battery packs based on those 18650 cells nothing but an excuse -- you just can't accept (not to mention embrace) such a technological advancement.

Wink
Post 05 Jun 2017, 04:34
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
revolution wrote:
Too many times I've seen people with the battery lasting only a few minutes but everything else working fine.
A few minutes? Rolling Eyes

Even if you meant "a few months", that would sound a bit too far-fetched.

Modern lithium polymer batteries have good life-spans. I would expect three to four years, at least.

Wink
Post 05 Jun 2017, 04:40
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
No, I mean a few minutes of runtime before the battery needs recharging.
Post 05 Jun 2017, 04:53
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17271
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
YONG wrote:
Like it or not, the technological trend is to manufacture laptops that are compact, lightweight, and energy-efficient. Those thin, flat lithium polymer batteries for smartphones, tablets, and laptops are bound to be the future. That's why I call your practice of sticking to those bulky, removable battery packs based on those 18650 cells nothing but an excuse -- you just can't accept (not to mention embrace) such a technological advancement.
I think you are using the wrong word. That makes no sense. Even it if were true that I "can't accept advancement" that doesn't make it an excuse. There is a material difference between a standard cell size and non-standard cell sizes. One meets my needs and the others don't.

I find non-standard battery packs with non-standard internal cells to be inferior, not any sort of "technological advancement". It is also possible to make a smaller standard cell size if the manufacturers were so inclined, but they are not. They prefer to make custom sizes, probably for reasons of planned obsolescence to increase sales of the new shiny. So the 18650 cells, while quite physically large by today's comparative measures, are still being actively developed and are advancing technologically. They are not being left behind in a technical sense. Indeed the volumetric capacity is not any different from Li-Poly cells so there is not any advantage in that measure. For the same capacity that aren't any heavier so that measure is also a non-issue. So the only measure left is the dimensions. You mention "thin" Li-Poly cells. This is really the only advantage they have IMO. But I have no criterion for thinness so that measure is is not even under consideration.
Post 05 Jun 2017, 05:22
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
revolution wrote:
No, I mean a few minutes of runtime before the battery needs recharging.
Nowadays, even the "worst" batteries should give at least two to three hours of laptop runtime. A few minutes is a bit too far-fetched.

Wink
Post 05 Jun 2017, 06:13
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
YONG wrote:
revolution wrote:
No, I mean a few minutes of runtime before the battery needs recharging.
Nowadays, even the "worst" batteries should give at least two to three hours of laptop runtime. A few minutes is a bit too far-fetched.
I'm talking about a dead battery pack. When they are new we "should" get 8 hours or so. But after some time and many charge-discharge cycles things are not so rosy anymore.
Post 05 Jun 2017, 06:14
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