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Index > Heap > Where can i post things lower than assembly?

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l4m2



Joined: 15 Jan 2015
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l4m2
Only the heap?
Post 21 Feb 2015, 15:59
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 17:54; edited 1 time in total
Post 21 Feb 2015, 16:15
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
Lower than assembly can be only a machine code written in HEX.
Smile
Post 22 Feb 2015, 13:03
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
Maybe FPGA or CPLD? 74xx/40xx series project?
Post 22 Feb 2015, 13:08
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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MHajduk
AsmGuru62 wrote:
Lower than assembly can be only a machine code written in HEX.
Smile
There is something that is called microcode said to be on the lower level than machine code. As far as I understood, it is that "rudimental" and "native" language below the assembly?

Another question that came to my mind: is it possible to create own machine code different from Intel's one operating on the Intel hardware?
Post 22 Feb 2015, 16:53
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
DNA coding - GACT? RNA - GACU? That would be interesting.
Post 22 Feb 2015, 16:57
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MHajduk



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MHajduk
revolution wrote:
DNA coding - GACT? RNA - GACU? That would be interesting.
Well, I appreciate your acute and sublime sense of humor Wink but I'd expect that you are the right person that may answer to my question. Smile As far as I remember, you are the one of the constructors of some CPUs?
Post 22 Feb 2015, 17:00
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Perhaps lower on this diagram?

Image
Post 22 Feb 2015, 17:01
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
MHajduk wrote:
Another question that came to my mind: is it possible to create own machine code different from Intel's one operating on the Intel hardware?
No. You would need to rewire the decoder stage. If you are thinking that the microcode updates can reconfigure the opcode maps then, no, it doesn't work that way.
MHajduk wrote:
As far as I remember, you are the one of the constructors of some CPUs?
I've made CPUs many years ago from discrete components. And slightly less than many years ago with reprogrammable logic. But I don't do that anymore. Intel/AMD/ARM/PIC/etc. have long since take over with much better offerings at cheaper prices. Why you ask?
Post 22 Feb 2015, 17:07
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MHajduk



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MHajduk
revolution wrote:
Why you ask?
I came through that information about microcode in Wikipedia some time ago and was curious if it is possible to reprogram common CPUs in own way. You are only person I know about who can explain it basing on the experience "from the first hand". Smile
Post 22 Feb 2015, 17:28
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
You asked about Intel's hardware. In that there is microcode that will define the opcodes and things. But the microcode updates that you can download and install from the BIOS can't change such fundamental parts of the CPU. It is more for things like for example disabling part of the store buffer if there is a subtle timing error. Mostly to fix some bug or problem.
Post 22 Feb 2015, 17:34
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MHajduk



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MHajduk
The one thing that seems to be a bit inconvenient in assembly is a limited list of data lengths. I mean that data chunks have to be either 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit, 64-bit etc. what is plausible if you are looking for speed of data operations but completely inconvenient from the mathematical point of view where we can think about numbers of arbitrary length. I know that there are bit fields operations but their set is too low-level in comparison with arithmetic operations performed by CPU.

What if I would like to have 117-bit long words, or 13-bit words, etc?
Post 22 Feb 2015, 17:53
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
MHajduk wrote:
What if I would like to have 117-bit long words, or 13-bit words, etc?
Just build your own CPU and make it do whatever you want.

In the past there were many different "weird" bit lengths used until everyone "standardised" on powers of 8-bits. But you can still find CPUs with unusual bit lengths for some applications.
Post 23 Feb 2015, 01:00
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Matrix



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
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Matrix
AsmGuru62 wrote:
Lower than assembly can be only a machine code written in HEX.
Smile


that is related to Assembly Programming Razz
Post 23 Feb 2015, 05:01
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Foxxy



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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Foxxy
revolution wrote:
MHajduk wrote:
What if I would like to have 117-bit long words, or 13-bit words, etc?
Just build your own CPU and make it do whatever you want.

In the past there were many different "weird" bit lengths used until everyone "standardised" on powers of 8-bits. But you can still find CPUs with unusual bit lengths for some applications.


If you don't mind my asking, how on earth (and why on earth) would you make your own CPU? As a hobby? How did you accomplish this?
Post 24 Feb 2015, 04:36
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Foxxy wrote:
If you don't mind my asking, how on earth (and why on earth) would you make your own CPU? As a hobby? How did you accomplish this?
For a simple CPU it's not as difficult as many people might think it is.

And I wasn't making a cached, OOO, renaming, 64-bit CUP+FPU or anything so fancy. Back then such things could only be dreamed of.

Nowadays one can use an off-the-shelf FPGA (or even a CPLD) to make a custom CPU.
Post 24 Feb 2015, 06:07
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Moving to that Heap. This topic has taken a new life.
Post 24 Feb 2015, 06:08
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l4m2



Joined: 15 Jan 2015
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l4m2
In just a few days came so many people... I just want to ask about logical electronic making
Post 24 Feb 2015, 14:45
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l4m2



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l4m2
revolution wrote:
Maybe FPGA or CPLD? 74xx/40xx series project?
Now i know how some 4xxx(not all 40xx but some of 45xx)and 74xx work and how to combine them
Post 24 Feb 2015, 14:47
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
l4m2 wrote:
revolution wrote:
Maybe FPGA or CPLD? 74xx/40xx series project?
Now i know how some 4xxx(not all 40xx but some of 45xx)and 74xx work and how to combine them
Erm ... with wires and solder? Usually. But I suppose wire-wrapping is also used for prototyping if you can find the sockets.
Post 24 Feb 2015, 14:52
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