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gens



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 161
gens
neville wrote:
gens wrote:
there is no such thing as a graviton
Bold statement! You have the proof? Or do you just know? See the true quote a few posts above


i'm more of a unified field theory kind of person
particle physics theory has many many holes like gravity, black matter and general notion of time


anyway a "graviton" was never proven, it is just there


Last edited by gens on 17 Mar 2014, 15:43; edited 1 time in total
Post 17 Mar 2014, 15:40
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gens



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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gens
sleepsleep wrote:
if somebody could tell me,
if you put a clock near earth inner core,
and the same mechanism clock at my home,

my home clock would run faster compare to inner core clock?
why they don't see the differences are cause by gravity forces, or etc forces? until i learn more.


your clock would run slower
because the earth spins thus making your clock move thru space faster then the earths core
Post 17 Mar 2014, 15:43
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
gens wrote:
because the earth spins thus making your clock move thru space faster then the earths core
My understanding is that the gravity well of the planet affects the passing of time. It has been proven many times in many different ways. The more gravity the more the effect. Atomic clocks in space run at a different speed than the same clock on the planet surface due to different gravity influences. These effects are hard to simply ignore and pass off as experimental errors when everyone that cares to measure it sees the same results with different experiments. GR and SR have so far survived every attempt to disprove them at every scale they have been measured at.
Post 17 Mar 2014, 15:54
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gens



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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gens
revolution wrote:
gens wrote:
because the earth spins thus making your clock move thru space faster then the earths core
My understanding is that the gravity well of the planet affects the passing of time. It has been proven many times in many different ways. The more gravity the more the effect. Atomic clocks in space run at a different speed than the same clock on the planet surface due to different gravity influences. These effects are hard to simply ignore and pass off as experimental errors when everyone that cares to measure it sees the same results with different experiments. GR and SR have so far survived every attempt to disprove them at every scale they have been measured at.


yes
there is time dilation from gravity and one from relative speed (special relativity)

hmmm
now you got me thinking
time passes slower with speed and slower with gravity
in the middle of the earth there is no speed or gravity
now.. what i assumed the special relativity's dilation is stronger on earth then gravitic one

hm, maybe i'm wrong
il have to calculate it some day (am lazy today)


PS special relativity is even trickier then it looks (objects gain "mass" as they speed up, not that it matters in this case)


edit: an experiment with some conclusions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele%E2%80%93Keating_experiment
Post 17 Mar 2014, 16:24
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gens



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 161
gens
gens wrote:
hmmm
now you got me thinking
time passes slower with speed and slower with gravity
in the middle of the earth there is no speed or gravity


wait a minute...
yes, clock would be slower on the earth then in the middle of it
(but it would be faster on a mountain then on ocean level, earth being a "sphere" and all)

edit: unless extreme pressure influences passing of time (don't think there were experiments on that)
Post 17 Mar 2014, 16:35
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
time become slow (because the forces affect how the time was determined, be it atomic clock, quantum clock or etc mechanism to calculate tick of time)

so, there exists forces, that could slow down how matter works, since we use those matters to calculate tick of time, so we perceive it as time slows down)

am i right?

i don't really know how earth works,
but google pictures show it as having a really hot core, lava and somehow, spinning?

if one take some form of liquid, lava, and make it more hot, and contained it, then spin it, would we have gravity? is there any experiment to create mini earth?
Post 18 Mar 2014, 07:18
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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MHajduk
sleepsleep wrote:
if one take some form of liquid, lava, and make it more hot, and contained it, then spin it, would we have gravity? is there any experiment to create mini earth?
Every object that has a mass affects the surrounding gravitational field. There is no need to heat it and change its state of matter.

Combination of the convection currents and rotation in the inner layers of the Earth are responsible for creation of the Earth's magnetic not gravitational field.
Post 18 Mar 2014, 11:50
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tthsqe



Joined: 20 May 2009
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tthsqe
Is it true that gravity itself cannot propagate faster then the speed of light?
So for example, one side of the milky way is experiencing the gravity from the other side a few hundred thousand years in the past?
Post 18 Mar 2014, 13:26
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MHajduk



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MHajduk
tthsqe wrote:
Is it true that gravity itself cannot propagate faster then the speed of light?
So for example, one side of the milky way is experiencing the gravity from the other side a few hundred thousand years in the past?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but accordingly to what I can recall from my school times, changes of gravitational field are transmitted immediately, in no-time?
Post 18 Mar 2014, 13:52
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revolution
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revolution
Speed of gravity is not yet proven but is expected to be the same as the speed of light. Experiments like LIGO are designed to detect gravity waves. No one really expects them to travel faster than light, but until it is detected we can't say for sure.
Post 18 Mar 2014, 14:12
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MHajduk



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MHajduk
Interesting, but I can't find the source what I have said about speed of gravity yet I had a strong feeling that it was true. Strange, indeed... Maybe it was just the Newtonian simplified model not the Einsteinian one, hence the different perspective?
Post 18 Mar 2014, 14:48
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Xorpd!



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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Xorpd!
If gravitational signals are transmitted instantaneously in one frame, they will have finite speed in some other frames and travel backwards in time in others.
Post 18 Mar 2014, 15:48
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gens



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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gens
sleepsleep wrote:
so, there exists forces, that could slow down how matter works, since we use those matters to calculate tick of time, so we perceive it as time slows down)


i have a similar opinion
only not forces but passing fields, kinda
Post 18 Mar 2014, 18:09
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neville



Joined: 13 Jul 2008
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neville
sleepsleep, going back to your original questions about Gravity, Sound and Magnetism:

You've been given a wide variety of "answers", most of which except mine are based on what we were taught at school or have read on the internet (so it MUST be right, right) - Relativistic mechanics, and Einsteins Special & General Relativity theories (SR, GR).

Your later questions about time dilation and relative clock speeds etc. indicates you've been researching some of it too Smile But I have to say, it seems to have become something of a religion over the last few decades, with lots of ardent highly-defensive followers who are very intolerant of any dissention!

But personally I don't buy SR and GR any more, and if you PM me I am happy to explain to you a lot more. It seems that if I explained it all here I might be tied to a stake and set on fire for heresy!

Very briefly, in my theory we only need a non-expanding 3-dimensional space with NO speed limits, and 1-dimensional uni-directional time. That's it! We don't need spacetime (bent or otherwise), we don't need the Lorentz Transformation and all the downstream issues it creates, and we certainly don't need time or length dilation...

I hope everyone agrees that sound waves are the least controversial and by far the easiest of your questions to understand, because we can not only hear them, but we can also SEE them being produced (plucked strings, vibrating columns, loudspeaker cone moving air etc), and they don't require any knowledge of (sub-atomic) particle physics, quantum mechanics, string theory or astro-physics!

But sound waves (and water waves) clearly demonstate how matter can interact over Time to produce a transfer of energy across Space. This is the essence of Wave Motion...

Now have a laugh at this Wikipedia article which is presumably intended to be serious:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_analysis_for_the_Global_Positioning_System

After pages of very impressive-looking mathematics using matrices and lots of ordinary algebra, the conclusion reached is:

wikipedia wrote:
That is, we need to slow the clocks down from 10.23 MHz to 10.22999999543 MHz in order to negate the effects of relativity.

which of course is utter nonsense if you really think about it for more than about a picosecond Smile

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Post 18 Mar 2014, 21:31
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Xorpd!



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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Xorpd!
Looking at the packaging for our stake, we find that it is nearing its expiration date, so rather than having to just throw it out, perhaps you could carry on a bit. Start with your explanation of the Michelson-Morley experiment, please.
Post 19 Mar 2014, 01:33
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
well, i understand that people, majority, will just follow the book, and somehow, curse or, regard others as idiot or etc if they are different,

Quote:
The man who follows the crowd will usually get no further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no one has ever been before.

Creativity in living is not without its attendant difficulties, for peculiarity breeds contempt. And the unfortunate thing about being ahead of your time is that when people finally realize you were right, they’ll say it was obvious all along. You have two choices in your life; you can dissolve into the mainstream, or you can be distinct. To be distinct, you must be different. To be different, you must strive to be what no one else but you can be . . . *

* By Alan Ashley-Pitt (Aardvarque Enterprises, 116 W. Arrellaga Street, Santa Barbara, California 93104).


well, discussion or ideas sharing should be open, for the sake of tomorrow better society.

i would love if you could define me, space,
based on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_interaction

they seems to divide existence into matter and force carrier.
but isn't it graviton (if exists), photons, are just sub-scale, or minus scale of matter?? since they exists albeit in very little tiny size.

now, does wave exists in matter? or what? eg. the sound i am hearing right now?

regarding speed limit, this one is really interesting!.
the idea of speed bring in distant, then bring in, time (count of ticks)

count of ticks, something move from A to B.
this under the assumption, count of ticks is always, stable, not affected by other forces.

so, is there exists, something that not affected by other forces? because the idea of tick already imply changes, and changes are caused by forces.

so, one could affect the outcome by utilize greater or smaller forces.

when let say a laser light was shot to a point, is that photons really move?? through atoms?
i got a thought experiment here, maybe they already did something like this, but idk, please give me link if you know somthing experiment like below.

1. using a evenly atom scale sheet, take a picture of it, see how the atoms aligned.
2. fire a laser through it, take picture upon impact, is the atoms remain aligned as previous?

well, we could then use photon sheet, and see if the light could disrupt the photon alignment, if it could, then these sub-scale stuff are just matter.

i am stupid, so, these are just what i could think of to verify.

if wave, transfer of energy, (assume energy don't exists as matter), they just hijack matter and spread.
like water, that formed itself based on where it could moves inside container to remain balance (due to gravity force)

so, there is another forces to cause wave, (or energy) to spread like how it spreads.


if they spin the gps clock on ground, same temperature as if the clock in on satellite, maybe both clock will report exact same time, since they are in same condition.
to blame the cause to time dilation (which time is only a concept and never exists), i think is kinda...
Post 19 Mar 2014, 01:54
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
there is one thing that i am confuse,

what if a magnet is rotate very fast in a circular path?

would the magnet magnetic field keeps up with the magnet?
Post 28 Mar 2014, 14:46
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
what would happen in side this glass water tube,
would the sun lighted water part move to non sunlight water part, A to B

and would this result continuous water flowing, from slightly heated to slightly non-heated?

could we make it result into a motor?


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Post 03 Apr 2014, 03:51
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revolution
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revolution
sleepsleep wrote:
could we make it result into a motor?
I'm not sure about your design approach given above but the answer in general is yes, you could make a sun powered motor. Keep in mind the the entire Earth's biosphere is a sun powered system. Also, solar panels can drive motors easily. And hydro-electric plants create lots of power from water stored energy.
Post 03 Apr 2014, 04:28
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gens



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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gens
Post 03 Apr 2014, 04:53
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