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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
revolution wrote:
sleepsleep wrote:
please tell me which part of written are lie?
It is just the same as throwing down a copy of the Bible and saying "tell me which part of written are lie". People who want to believe will still believe, so there is no point in anyone wasting time to refute whatever nonsense is given.

this is amazing Laughing
Post 31 Jan 2014, 17:26
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malpolud



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malpolud
revolution wrote:
It is just the same as throwing down a copy of the Bible and saying "tell me which part of written are lie".


Not really, most of the arguments presented in the petition are logical facts that can not be denied. Like the one that money is created out of nowhere Smile

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Post 31 Jan 2014, 18:41
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
malpolud wrote:
Like the one that money is created out of nowhere Smile
Yes, that is true. But why do you think that is a bad thing? If you don't understand how the monetary system works then you get led up the garden path and make all sorts of poor conclusions. Learn about how the system works and don't simply take other's words for which parts are good and which parts are bad. Inform yourselves about things before making bad conclusions and believing in nonsense.
Post 01 Feb 2014, 00:15
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
revolution wrote:

But why do you think that is a bad thing?

i assume you mean it is a good thing, why?
Post 01 Feb 2014, 04:35
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
sleepsleep wrote:
revolution wrote:

But why do you think that is a bad thing?

i assume you mean it is a good thing, why?
You have already stated yourself that it is a good thing: Bitcoins are money created from nothing.

I'm not going to teach you about economic theory here, you can use google to search for such tutorials. But basically if you don't expand the money then there is no room for economic growth. No economic growth means people hoard the money. Money hoarding is a very bad thing. Inflation solves that by making hoarded money worth less and less over time and hence people are encouraged to spend and support the economy. It is a tricky thing to balance properly but when done right things go very well.

You are very mistaken if you think that bankers are simply lining their own pockets. Banks operate under very strict rules. They have to else the economy would collapse like has happened in many countries in the past. I suggest learning more about how the monetary system operates before you get upset about something that is not even true.
Post 01 Feb 2014, 04:49
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
revolution wrote:
No economic growth means people hoard the money. Money hoarding is a very bad thing. Inflation solves that by making hoarded money worth less and less over time and hence people are encouraged to spend and support the economy. It is a tricky thing to balance properly but when done right things go very well.


Aahh! I see. Smile

So, too much corruption and greed ==> Inflation ==> poverty ==> 1% controlling 99%.
Post 01 Feb 2014, 07:11
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
typedef wrote:
So, too much corruption and greed ==> Inflation ==> poverty ==> 1% controlling 99%.
Not quite. It can simply be shortened to this:

corruption and greed ==> 1% controlling 99%

The existence of money makes no difference there.
Post 01 Feb 2014, 07:14
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
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malpolud
I really do understand economics concepts, these concepts are not that complex compared to "more scientific" fields like for example fields of physics, maths. The only problem with economy is that economical processes take so many variables that it is impossible to form basic laws that are always applicable in any country, any political system or in any company.

revolution wrote:
But basically if you don't expand the money then there is no room for economic growth


Well about economic growth:
1) the matter is how we express economic growth. As an example consider pros and cons of GDP.
2) the matter mentioned in the article: "economic growth cannot continue forever on a finite planet". I agree with that statement. If we do not revise aspects taken into account for counting economic growth (one of these aspects could be adding free time) we are soon trapped where we are now.

I simply don't trust these people who run banks. Banks do not produce ANY goods, but they are the richest organisations in the world. I know that the world without banks is hard to imagine, but everything is possible.

Thank you all for your opinions, it is great to read it and to learn from it.

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It's either there when you're born or not.
Post 01 Feb 2014, 08:10
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malpolud



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malpolud
revolution wrote:
Bitcoins are money created from nothing.


Their creation is predictable and does not depend on trust to any organisation. Everybody who participates is partially in charge of the system. Bitcoin is not perfect, and maybe it will colapse for other, technically more perfect cryptocurrency. Money is in fact information how many resources you have, why should we delegate this information to other people. We are not living in Wild West anymore, we do not need to delegate our money to a couple of gunman so another gunman won't take it from us.

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There's nothing special about it,
It's either there when you're born or not.
Post 01 Feb 2014, 08:19
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
malpolud wrote:
Banks do not produce ANY goods, ...
True, but irrelevant. Banks provide services. If those services were not valued by the population then those banks would have no customers.
Post 01 Feb 2014, 10:11
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malpolud



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malpolud
Of course they do. In my opinion these services are desired by customers because of their addiction not the real need.

I am really curious how China's influence will spread with their way of monetary politics?
Post 01 Feb 2014, 13:01
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typedef



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typedef
malpolud wrote:
I am really curious how China's influence will spread with their way of monetary politics?


Question or simply a statement?

Either way, isn't it where the use of real money started? So you are too late with your observation because it has already influenced the world hahahaha
Post 01 Feb 2014, 15:25
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HaHaAnonymous



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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 18:20; edited 1 time in total
Post 01 Feb 2014, 16:00
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
HaHaAnonymous wrote:
someone wrote:

Bitcoins are money created from nothing.

Money itself is created from nothing. LOL!
Yes indeed, but a lot of people don't seem to realise that. I thought the Bitcoin example would make it more clear to the early posters in this thread especially since they were proposing that Bitcoin was the solution to all the all the "problems". Bitcoin won't solve any of the "problems" as they perceive them. We will still have the 1%/99% thing happening, it is part of how things work, and have worked ever since the beginning. It is not money that created those "problems", and it is not abolishing money that will solve those "problems".
Post 01 Feb 2014, 16:18
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
HaHaAnonymous wrote:
The only difference is that "money" is available in touchable form (metal coins, paper notes, etc).
Actually no. Very little of the money today is available in the physical form of notes and coins.
Post 01 Feb 2014, 16:20
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:
"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal
Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United
States" -- Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AZ)


Quote:
"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions.
They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people
of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers" -- Congressional
Record 12595-12603 -- Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932


Quote:
"If Congress has the right [it doesn't] to issue paper money [currency], it was given to them to be used by...[the government] and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations" -- President Andrew Jackson, Vetoed Bank Bill of 1836


http://www.themoneymasters.com/the-money-masters/famous-quotations-on-banking/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-owns-the-federal-reserve/10489

they all need to study economy.
Post 01 Feb 2014, 20:45
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HaHaAnonymous



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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 18:20; edited 1 time in total
Post 01 Feb 2014, 23:28
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
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malpolud
These people ruling money creation have infinite possibilities to create and rule other things dependant on the money. I think that if such thing as bitcoin would be used as payments, such situation would not be possible. They would eventually run out of money - so they will have no means to just improve their power. Currently economics denies that it is possible to use such currency, but Ithink that once people understand what benefits does the cryptocurrency bring, new economical theories will be created Smile
Post 02 Feb 2014, 07:53
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
Let's bring back barter system. Resurrect the silk highway
Post 02 Feb 2014, 14:25
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
interest is actually a very serious designed issue,
it forces and perpetuate the creation of money in a very negative way (and out of control).

all money is debt now.

if one combine cryptocoin with kickstarter, then we basically could skip the bank function in some ways.
1. no more interest on loan, one send cryptocoin to fund a project, development, construction or etc, received the payment plus shareable profit in future. (prevent monopoly by one single big company)

2. future profit coming after the project could generate something that people willing to purchase, and since future cryptocoin creation is well defined so monetary market is more stable.

ah, what the difference between profit and interest.
interest is a sure profit situation,
profit is a maybe profit or maybe loss situation.

and how could a sure profit concept exists when we are dealing with uncertainties and changes?
there are bad debts, unpaid loan, death, etc, from what i could see, i weight profit more in fair risks taking compare to interest.
Post 04 Feb 2014, 00:50
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