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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Check out the following link:

Discovery of Quantum Vibrations in 'Microtubules' Inside Brain Neurons Supports Controversial Theory of Consciousness:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140116085105.htm

In case you have no idea of what a microtubule is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtubule

Fascinating!
Post 18 Jan 2014, 08:29
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matefkr



Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 1291
Location: Ukraine, Beregovo
matefkr
u is uninformed.

On the other hand, consciousness realy is like a piece of apple.

but not the red apple the green apple.

so that u got some leaves on it as well. If u bite into the counscousness, it tastes like green apple realy.

and it is realy hard compared to red apple (wich is a dickhead, and i dont fear girls teething, because i have violated no girls).

thats about it.
Post 18 Jan 2014, 10:17
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
Quote:
Microtubule quantum vibrations (e.g. in megahertz) appear to interfere and produce much slower EEG "beat frequencies." Despite a century of clinical use, the underlying origins of EEG rhythms have remained a mystery.

Hi Yong!
Now just a week from the Lunar New Year, so here's an early xin nian kuai le greeting....

This "research", as described in the newspaper clipping from the link you provided, in my opinion, is nonsense. The brain may indeed be a mystery, but it is not simply some kind of thick salty soup with vibrating noodles.....

Consciousness, like other central nervous system tasks, including vision, hearing, movement, abstract thinking, anger, hormonal regulation, mathematical computation, and composition of music, requires electrical transmission from one part of the brain, to another. The "mysterious" EEG [electroencephalogram] patterns are a result of different portions of the brain becoming metabolically active at different times. Drugs and colder temperatures, (the latter applied selectively to specific regions of the brain) prevent the electrical activity, yet have no effect on the existence of the microtubules found in the axons of all neurons.

These structural elements, microtubules, play an important role in many different cells, found within the brain, (including both neurons themselves, and glia ("glue" cells)), for sure, but not one involving EEG rhythms. Think of a building: take away the steel skeleton, and the building collapses. One does not credit, however, that sturdy steel framework, with regulation of temperature, inside the building.....

Cheers,
tom
Post 21 Jan 2014, 09:35
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
tom tobias wrote:
Hi Yong!
Now just a week from the Lunar New Year, so here's an early xin nian kuai le greeting....
Thank you for your greeting. However, the truth is that I do not celebrate Chinese New Year.
Post 21 Jan 2014, 11:28
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
tom tobias wrote:
These structural elements, microtubules, play an important role in many different cells, found within the brain, (including both neurons themselves, and glia ("glue" cells)), for sure, but not one involving EEG rhythms. Think of a building: take away the steel skeleton, and the building collapses. One does not credit, however, that sturdy steel framework, with regulation of temperature, inside the building.....
Thank you for your input. However, could you please provide relevant references to support the sentence highlighted by me? Rolling Eyes
Post 21 Jan 2014, 11:33
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 18:28; edited 1 time in total
Post 21 Jan 2014, 13:47
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1408
Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
What about dreams, HaHa?
Is it somewhere in the middle of being fully conscious and 'dead'?
Good topic btw!
It is about time humans became more knowledgeable about the brain workings.
Post 21 Jan 2014, 14:01
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 18:28; edited 1 time in total
Post 21 Jan 2014, 14:51
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sid123



Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 340
Location: Asia, Singapore
sid123
These are in my opinion 'Mysterious Things' that occur in nature. Nature like any other creator might have thought to create some mysterious elements, let's take an example, gamers are familiar with the term 'Easter Eggs' where in there are some unexplained content that does not align with the aspect of the game. I believe these things are similar to those. There is no reason for dreams to exist, yet they occur.
I believe that there are certain regions of brain that when are active, the body has the ability to think, feel etc. When sleeping I think these regions are turned off temporarily, but if there is a contact/change in environment will automatically initialize these regions,
Sometimes the brain comes into such a situation that it turns these regions are turned off quickly, to prevent damage like emotional instability, and are not turned back until the brain is under a stable condition. Sometimes due to high damage these regions are turned off completely and are very difficult to revive, I think this is what we call coma.
Again these are my thoughts, the reality may be different....
Post 21 Jan 2014, 15:17
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
sid123 wrote:
These are in my opinion 'Mysterious Things' that occur in nature.
Yes, there are. To me, one of the most fascinating mysterious things is quantum entanglement. Wink
Post 22 Jan 2014, 04:11
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
YONG wrote:
... I do not celebrate Chinese New Year.

My apologies... I am very fond of the food served at New year's celebrations...

You asked for a reference about microtubules--they are not mysterious:

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/cells/microtubules/microtubules.html
Quote:
These straight, hollow cylinders are found throughout the cytoplasm of all eukaryotic cells (prokaryotes don't have them) and carry out a variety of functions, ranging from transport to structural support. Microtubules, which are about 25 nanometers in diameter, form part of the cytoskeleton that gives structure and shape to a cell, and also serve as conveyor belts moving other organelles throughout the cytoplasm. In addition, microtubules are the major components of cilia and flagella, and participate in the formation of spindle fibers during cell division (mitosis). The length of microtubules in the cell varies between 200 nanometers and 25 micrometers, depending upon the task of a particular microtubule and the state of the cell's life cycle.
Post 22 Jan 2014, 07:59
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
tom tobias wrote:
You asked for a reference about microtubules--they are not mysterious:

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/cells/microtubules/microtubules.html
Thanks. But my actual question is:

How do you know that microtubules do NOT play any role in generating EEG rhythms?

Could you please provide a reference to support your argument? Rolling Eyes

Please note that I am NOT trying to challenge you, a neurology scientist. I am just curious -- as I have come across research findings suggesting that a SINGLE neuron can do lots of things. (See the following links.) Maybe, microtubules do in fact play a role.

http://www.nature.com/news/2007/071219/full/news.2007.392.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131027140632.htm

Wink


Last edited by YONG on 22 Jan 2014, 08:32; edited 1 time in total
Post 22 Jan 2014, 08:25
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17253
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
YONG: You can't prove a negative. Although I do sympathise with you about wanting clarification from tom tobias.
Post 22 Jan 2014, 08:29
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
revolution wrote:
YONG: You can't prove a negative.
What? Rolling Eyes Yes, I can. See the following:

"revolution is NOT willing to reveal his/her gender."

Ask any long-time forum member. Everyone would agree that the above negative statement has been proved to be true.

Wink
Post 22 Jan 2014, 08:39
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17253
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
YONG wrote:
revolution wrote:
YONG: You can't prove a negative.
What? Rolling Eyes Yes, I can. See the following:

"revolution is NOT willing to reveal his/her gender."

Ask any long-time forum member. Everyone would agree that the above negative statement has been proved.

Wink
Hehe, touché.
Post 22 Jan 2014, 08:43
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 18:27; edited 1 time in total
Post 22 Jan 2014, 13:40
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17253
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
HaHaAnonymous wrote:
If I tell you why I can be banned. So, I'm not going to take the risk.
I have no power to ban you so fire away ...
Post 22 Jan 2014, 14:05
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HaHaAnonymous



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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 18:27; edited 1 time in total
Post 22 Jan 2014, 14:26
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
How did this thread's focus change from role of microtubules in consciousness to revolution's supposed gender.

I write "supposed", because he/she could easily be half a dozen different folks working at ARM Holdings....

Anyway, back to the topic, and YONG's meritorious followup inquiry.
I am not going to furnish a reference to support my contention that the steel case holding the typical desktop computer plays no role in performing the functions of that same computer. In fact, on my desk, I have several motherboards, naked, out in the open, with no steel case at all. They work just fine.

YONG, you can read, if you are curious, about neurons cultured in vitro. They have microtubules, but no consciousness!! They have resting membrane potentials, as does EVERY living cell, but, unlike their neuronal kinfolk in a living brain, of any animal, the isolated neuron displays little if any, spontaneous electrical activity, i.e. action potentials. Why not? They have no synaptic connections with other neurons. An isolated neuron possesses microtubules, as does every other prokaryotic cell, but that neuron has no typical function, without other neurons in close proximity, forming synaptic connections. Think of a stick of DRAM, sitting on the desk, all by itself.

Consciousness, like memory, and anger, and love, and understanding of mathematics, is a process reflecting the collective attributes of the entire central nervous system. If you will visit a hospital for war veterans, you will find many folks, who are apparently healed, upon gaze of their external features, but they have no recollection of their former identity, due to severe brain injury. They have EEG patterns, but often those patterns are quite different from conventional patterns, reflecting, not microtubule dysfunction, but rather, ABSENCE of neurons, a result of the trauma on the battlefield.
Post 23 Jan 2014, 11:37
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17253
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
tom tobias wrote:
I write "supposed", because he/she could easily be half a dozen different folks working at ARM Holdings....
Sorry for the offtopic again, but I should address this properly. I am not, and have never been, paid by ARM for anything at any time, ever. That also applies to Intel, Apple, Microsoft, Dell, Lenovo, AMD, or any other company that I might have happened to mention in any of my postings. So you are all welcome to bash such companies as much as you like. I might even join you in such bashings.

As for the topic here ... I have often thought of conciousness as being like the software of the brain. I doubt it is something that you can collect and put into a container. It needs to be "running" in some hardware support mechanism but the support mechanism itself is not the conciousness.

Perhaps one day we will figure out how to transfer (or copy) the conciousness into a different support mechanism?
Post 23 Jan 2014, 11:51
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