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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
i love to talk about money,
Quote:

A current medium of exchange in the form of coins and banknotes; coins and banknotes collectively.


money doesn't show us the contribution of the person who hold those money.

i think the contribution of person who hold the money is a very important attribute that totally missing from the idea/concept of "money".

because it is hard, tedious job to detect where those money come from individually.

for me, i believe, the future is, people only offer service & goods to people who worth those services & goods.

service & goods are offered because of that person personal, not because of the money s(h)e holds.

so we need a system to keep track of contribution back into society instead of a money keeping system.

a system that allow people to input their contribution,

a system that enable people who helped by the contribution to confirm it and add point into that person.

a system that allow people to review another person before they decide to provide them services / goods.

to make yourself worth of services & goods is not keeping and hoarding money,

but to help others, contribute back into society, and "people" are those who will judge your actions and award points to your personality account.

because there is absolutely no point to serve people who are not worthy,
to receive is to give,

under current money concept society, most people give, and they hardly receive

under my new model of contribution based economy system, those who give are guaranteed to receive
Post 05 Sep 2012, 18:45
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
The problem is in how to judge the contribution?

How do children contribute while learning at school?

How does a cancer researcher contribute to society when they produce no tangible results for 20 years? Do they starve for 20 years until they can eventually discover some treatment and then start living like kings/queens? Where do they get the resources to do research when they have no contributions on their personal contribution record?

For those situations you will still need a system to provide for people that are not making direct contributions today but in the future could potentially contribute enormously. If you force everyone to start contributing in a measurable way every minute of their day then no one is encouraged to do research or do creative work that bears no immediate returns.
Post 05 Sep 2012, 19:31
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
revolution wrote:

The problem is in how to judge the contribution?

the contribution will be judged by people who join the system,
click [like] or [dislike]
this will overhaul the whole countries on earth.

revolution wrote:

How do children contribute while learning at school?

they can still contribute, helping clean public toilet, bury accident dog/cat found on road, almost everything, maybe we only let those after 8 or 10 to join the system.

revolution wrote:

How does a cancer researcher contribute to society when they produce no tangible results for 20 years? Do they starve for 20 years until they can eventually discover some treatment and then start living like kings/queens? Where do they get the resources to do research when they have no contributions on their personal contribution record?

For those situations you will still need a system to provide for people that are not making direct contributions today but in the future could potentially contribute enormously. If you force everyone to start contributing in a measurable way every minute of their day then no one is encouraged to do research or do creative work that bears no immediate returns.

agree,
so if everything is public, transparent, which means, they have to update public about their research from time to time, people will keep on appreciate them and help them in every way because everybody are aware of the important of that particular research.

if research are open, transparent which means, more people get the data, more people who interested are able to commit into that project, like open source project model.
Post 06 Sep 2012, 07:48
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
Whose job is it to bury animal carcasses? The city or your son at school?
Post 06 Sep 2012, 18:28
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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JohnFound
There is no need to understand "contribution" too near. Children learning at school contributing simply by doing his job - to learn.
The researcher contributes by making experiments, studying theories, etc. regardless of the end results.
It is a job of the planning to ensure all efforts to lead to the proper results.
Post 06 Sep 2012, 18:57
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
why should we serve people who always take but never give?

why should we serve people who make use the system and keep on enslave all human for their own profit?
Post 07 Sep 2012, 11:50
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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asmhack
sleepsleep wrote:
why should we serve people who always take but never give?

why should we serve people who make use the system and keep on enslave all human for their own profit?


cuz you have less money than them, that's why. and you need money..
Post 08 Sep 2012, 19:17
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
asmhack wrote:

cuz you have less money than them, that's why. and you need money..

idk, but i don't want their money,
they gave you some papers, what for.
then you become like a slave, you do what they order?

it doesn't makes sense.
Post 09 Sep 2012, 08:50
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
It is not about the physical representation of money (i.e. paper) it is about what you can do with it (i.e. buy things) that you would otherwise not be able to get.

It makes no difference if money is represented as paper, coins, credits, tulips bulbs, bitcoins or whatever. The point being that it is a method of economic exchange.

If you focus only on the money itself then you will fail to realise what it actually means. Money is not evil or bad or stupid, but human greed for things is what makes it appears to be the problem. If you replaced money with some other method of recording economic exchanges then human greed will simply use that new method and you get into the same situation we have now.
Post 09 Sep 2012, 10:41
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JohnFound



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JohnFound
revolution, the currency is complex object. The money in your pocket can represent a lot of things. You can make money several ways, but only the first one is good for the society:

1. working - most of people get the money this way, contributing to the society in constructive way.
2. stealing - it is also work, but destructive for the society and because of this it is illegal in most countries.

3. stealing legal way - the owner of some means of production steals its profits from its workers, simply by being owner of something, not working himself. (There are many other ways to steal some money - i.e. to get more money than your labor expended - all of them legal, but its legality does not change the fact that these money are stolen.)

Note, that the above owner can work in his factory and thus his profit will contain some honestly gained working salary and some stolen part.

There are many other ways to gain more money than the labor one expended - using peoples stupidity or simply peoples need, manipulating, cheating, etc.

IMHO, this complex nature of the money is that make the problems and should be changed in KISS way.
The money should only represent the work someone expended. This way, it will be impossible the money to be stolen.

Of course, I don't know how this goal can be achieved and even I don't know is it possible at all.
Post 09 Sep 2012, 11:54
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
JohnFound: You also appear to be blaming "money" for a problem that is not caused by money. It is caused by human greed. Replace "money" with anything else and those problems with human greed will still exist. Blaming the wrong thing (i.e. the money itself) won't help you to solve the underlying problem.
Post 09 Sep 2012, 11:59
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JohnFound



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JohnFound
revolution, the human greed is not a problem, if it is controlled. More, the greed (in wider meaning) can be very powerful constructive power.
The society is that have to be changed in a way the humans greed to be directed to constructive way, not destructive. The currency system is part of the society together with the mechanisms of money exchange and distribution.
In a society where it is possible to gain money without working, it will be the preferred way for everyone.
Post 09 Sep 2012, 12:20
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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asmhack
People with money make the rules and they don't tax themselves but they tax the bread and the water.
You know how much billions are stored in accounts and not moving ?
Money is evil, we're just to dumb to understand it.
How we could leave without money ??? It's like living without sun.?
How much more we should wait ? 100 years ? 1000 years ?
To live finally free.
Post 09 Sep 2012, 12:22
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
money is not evil, but because money is tied to a system, and this system is evil and bad.

this system provides us an easy way to compete, and to determine winner, but imo this competition is actually unnecessary and destructive.

man nature is to win, we been educated like that since we are sperm,

we can win, but isn't it better for everybody to win?
独乐乐不如众乐乐
(translate: sharing your happiness is much better than enjoying your happiness by your own.

Enjoying happiness alone is not as happy as sharing it.)


to let everybody become master of their own life instead of corporations slaves?

the idea of technology advancement, robotic engineering will make all these possible,
open source is a great movement,

we struggle with one concept,
why should i give them free? why should i help them

imo,
not everybody deserve truth
in another sense, not everybody deserve your help, your ideas, your knowledge, and so on.

not everybody care about humanity
they don't care if you create a new assembler, a new operating system, a new currency, and so on

but everybody deserve justice
this is one thing which is agreeable for everybody, they don't want to get rip, get cheated, they want to get fair.


let me ask you all a question.
if today, Tomasz wants cash 10k, a new iphone5, ipad2, new server, new house, flight ticket, and etc

who in this board will not help Tomasz? *let just refer to adults who got job, got saving, and capable to help Tomasz.

everyone will help, in small or big amount,
because we know he deserves more,
because we know he is genius,
because we saw and use what he contributes,

we need a system that really benefit the contributors instead of their boss who screw them with low wage

we need a system that identify who is changing the world to a better place, better humanity, research accurate truth about universe, history and so on

why we limit ourselves to serve corporations or politic people, or your boss who type slower than you? or your boss who most probably got no idea about what you know?

or your boss who only know how to direct you to do those shitty jobs and never help you?


because we should only serve people who deserve us, deserve our help, our knowledge, our ideas, and so on.

we don't serve idiots, because if you offer them to church or TED talks, they will choose church, they will donate money to religious activities instead of science activities, they will claimed god created everything but accept that god offer no much explanations.

they will choose religion over truth, humanity and justice.


JohnFound wrote:
The society is that have to be changed in a way the humans greed to be directed to constructive way, not destructive. The currency system is part of the society together with the mechanisms of money exchange and distribution.

totally agree with you.

asmhack wrote:
People with money make the rules and they don't tax themselves but they tax the bread and the water.

because we got so much idiots that keep on support them, giving them power, and allow them to do anything.
Post 09 Sep 2012, 14:46
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
why corporation pay wage?
why boss pay you salary?

because they knew, if they don't give you money, you not gonna help them.

and what if you decide you don't want their money?

they knew about this, and they feel scare,

and thats why they brainwash us since we are children, to get something, you need to pay money.

you need to have money if you want to own something

you need to work, become slave if you want to continue your life, you gotta pay bils, electricity, water, house, transport

if you don't have money, you lose everything
Post 09 Sep 2012, 15:05
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Replace "money" with "contribution". Same thing. Don't be fooled into blaming the wrong thing.
Post 09 Sep 2012, 15:23
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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asmhack
sleepsleep wrote:

because we should only serve people who deserve us, deserve our help, our knowledge, our ideas, and so on.


That's a good start, but to do that you must have a character -
something that most people doesn't have nowadays. I call them pussies.
Post 09 Sep 2012, 15:30
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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JohnFound
revolution wrote:
Replace "money" with "contribution". Same thing. Don't be fooled into blaming the wrong thing.


You are wrong here. "Money" can not be replaced with "contribution" in all cases. Read my post above.
The trick is to invent such a currency that "money" to be equal to "contribution" in all cases.

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Post 09 Sep 2012, 16:03
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asmhack



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asmhack
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by asmhack on 09 Sep 2012, 16:19; edited 2 times in total
Post 09 Sep 2012, 16:13
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
@sleepsleep:

The idea of "work = slavery" is visible in almost all your posts.
Have you ever thought that this is not always the case?

In fact, I know a lot of people, which are very happy at work.
Some are not happy - I admit that, but most of people are.

Come to think of it - it is totally up to a person - to make sure
a job brings pleasure instead of pain. So, the corporate culture is not to blame,
but the blame for unhapiness should fall on a person.

As for money - it is just papers/coins used to measure contributions.
In fact, it is just numbers: when I get paid, my account adds some number.
When I am paying with the card - some amount is subtracted.

The money is a power to force the society to progress (Karl Marx).
The time will come when money will no longer be needed.
Post 09 Sep 2012, 16:14
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