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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
is that ok to revenge?
when politic and government are doing totally wrong and insane, wrong and insane are kind of perception, let assume a situation when 80% majority disagree with what going on. and when things are no longer logic,

like a set of television, when you press channel 8, channel 1 coming, what would you do?

i assume, base on logic, we could find the values, core values to have a logical system of living lifestyle,

could we revenge, after they killed so many people, blamed and jailed so many people, corrupt and steal all the resources meant for everybody for so long,

and after all the evil, despicable acts they did,

could we revenge?

should we held authority into our hand and start doing all the revenge,

to do this logically, means, we must clarify,

why we revenge,
for what we revenge,
and how we will revenge,
how to justify our action,
our objectives,
Post 23 May 2013, 12:22
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17270
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
It depends upon what sort of revenge you are considering. There are different ways to take revenge. Some ways are good, some ways are not so good.
Post 23 May 2013, 12:34
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
sleepsleep wrote:

like a set of television, when you press channel 8, channel 1 coming, what would you do?


Easy. Grab the remote and change the channel.
No need to throw the TV our beat the crap of it.

Smile
Post 23 May 2013, 15:12
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MazeGen



Joined: 06 Oct 2003
Posts: 975
Location: Czechoslovakia
MazeGen
I don't usually take the revenge but if I do, I destroy all remotes around that don't work well.
Post 23 May 2013, 18:23
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Revenge? Anger? Wrath?
or
Justice? Peace? Mercy? Forgiveness?

Seems an easy choice.
Post 23 May 2013, 21:34
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
most of the time i felt,
people onboard, be it this board or etc board,

never really want to tell, share what and how they think,

there got people who just post to entertain u, or to entertain themselves,, or for the sake of post, u read their post, and u know it never comes from their heart, the sincerity is sub sub subset,

or people who know exactly what i ask, but try to respond it in a global way, common way,

conclusion, people really afraid to talk nowadays, or maybe people stop thinking for a long time already,
we allow insanity and we help them progress by keeping mum on lots of issue,

will truth, humanity, justice ever come if everybody keep mum?

ah, pray to dog, and relax,

because i view myself as a idiot, and i know there are lots of genius here,

thats why i ask the genius here because i really want to know how genius view such issue and their responds,

i wrote what i felt, not target to anybody in this thread or other thread,

i hope for open, sincere, progressive contact and communication, after all, we all probably gonna die 80 or 100 year in future,
Post 23 May 2013, 22:23
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
maybe, smart people are too smart, they just keep quiet, risk nothing, share nothing, and continue exists and assume existence on lala land,

after all, 80 years or 100 years, they will gone, so why try so hard to risk, sit quiet and enjoy for 100 years,
Post 23 May 2013, 22:31
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
You're too vague, and you expect too much. What did you think we were going to say? What did you think would happen? Will war ever disappear? All we can do is minimize the damage and avoid more wars. We can only control ourselves, not others. We're not expected to fix anyone else. We live one day at a time, and that's plenty for our own needs. Everything else is just overreaching.

If you don't like injustice, then don't perform it. If you want to help people, practice patience and kindness. You can't build up by tearing down (even if that is unavoidable sometimes).

Don't worry about all the worldly problems, just make sure you do your best to do good in your own way (without making things worse and without repaying evil for evil).
Post 23 May 2013, 23:14
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matefkr



Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 1291
Location: Ukraine, Beregovo
matefkr
wells. Revenge have two sides to start with.
one: revenge done by the person who does it, and
two: a revenge beind done onto a person being recognised by a person as the doing was a revenge by someone else.

Revenge itself is usually connected by destruction or limitation, wich in principle at least can be good sometimes for the REMAINING whole (ok REMAINING WHOLE). But many things are harder to see forth, thus certain kind of damages limit some wich will cause a lot of things to be taken out of equation.. for example not only possible harm done by the person who are limited or killed are avoided but in some cases probably capacity for improvements are limited.

Also it is very interesting to look at how revenge overlaps or into wich category does it belong to (in order to decide wether there is a use in considering this concept of revenge instead of rather just considering another concept discarding thise one most of the time). So revenge first recquire capacity to do revenge in some ways when there is capacity for this, then what it serves is usually questionable. for example first it serves something for real. second it serves something in the eye of the person who perceived the revenge (the one doing it or the other perceiving it being done onto self). [i use inclusive or btw except stated otherwise]
So for example for the one doing it, it can be a tool to avoid further damage being done onto someone. This can come with a selfish or a selfless perspective or an inclusive of self and others perspective also. the one perceving it being done might see it as a primary offense, or see it as a punishment against something. So for example destruction of perception capabilities at least on the actor as a form of revenge excludes the other one perceiving it as a revenge. Then in theory it might very well teach nothing to the person but to others who also perceive it as a revenge (outsiders). Although since the soul is barely understood its capabilities and information content is a matter of debate one can only base some reasoning on self. [too bad i have slept only 4 hours recently, its an interesting topic but i feel rather tired]. So however there is perception everywhere so in all cases it is subject to interpretation on all acts. because, u realy need to summon knowledge and capacities from all areas of science at least about wich u know and perhaps even go beyond BEFORE doing revenge.. although in some clases it might be clear that revenge is better. So it is also possible that some sort of revenge maybe also provoke revenge (in a way) from the other side, because they for example are very selfish in the first place, and they have done harm initially as an act of selfish harm doing for self to feel better and not as a revenge (to entertain self or others). So then killing or making others otherwise incapable of revenge recquire that identification is not possible.. so even if revenge is chosen, should not let the revenge doer be identifiable at all times, and this fact should be made very clear for those looking at something as a revenge. If something is not clearly revenge, then it is not clearly response to a behavior so its educational value is lessened. But as stated maybe ones revenge is already a response to a revenge.. wich might not be realized at first. so this might be made clear first. Although selfish people dont care about such, they just want their revenge. Non selfish people (connecting here) will be looking at educating others as a way to create something wich enjoys self, rather then looking at education as a matter of selffullfillmenet or fulfilling a cultural habbit. So whit non selfish people (selfless or self and others inclusive) or better to tell with nonselfish groups it is possible if they are smart enough, that an error in the behavior setting up the situation is found and this error can be eliminated from next generations provided enough place is there for next generations to wastly outnumber earlier generations. In such a case revenge is not needed. But this means that nonselfish people and groups more generally have a higher ability to act. So in the system there might be just some selfish bastards, who are situated in a position so that it can prevent someone from realizing others not being selfish. As there is a high number of individuals, impossible to verify for a human as far as i can see, informatics and tracking systems are very important to consider. These might be flawless impossible to break into. This is not the case right now, its merely based on faith wich i think pathetic from the perspective of security related programmers or system administrators. So it is very important to create a trustable information system, impossible to hack without notice.. or when it would be possible it would recquire such high above technology that many things would be futile anyway.

There are other leaflets to consider of course. for example likely deadly situations. in such case revenge is to be taken. But as u have proposed that "we held authority into our hand and start doing all the revenge" it is not so realy usefull. with authority already present it is possible just to build a better system. well maybe some peoples movemetns and actions of evil doing would be restricted on specifc case level.. and they might look at it as a revenge.. its only intention to make it impossible for them to carry out a specific way of physical bodily harm for example. But again.. self needs perfect morals and good intellectuality to be able to define good laws and rules.
Anyway when there is authority this authority should be utilized to build goodness for self and those in need.. well it is possible that some would interfere with these very actions.. then u should consider:
-do u know the other one very well? y u think so? if u dont know is it something related to them not having vastly overpovered technology?
-do u know about them knowing about your own possible hidden capabilities?
-what are ur hidden capabilities?

Then in some cases u might ignore them or hold them off with some gentle as possible means of doing evil onto your efforts of making a better system. Just alyway be aware of the need for identification of groups or individuals.. or the likelyiness of individuals connected to a group. Although it might be usefull to consider your own emotional state. Take note how one might easily disregard information or behavior connected to positive emotional conditioning when they are currently in negative emotional state or even the opposite way. Also negatie emotions themselves initiate a fast response.. with less consideration.

there would be tons of things to talk about this one. never the less u have mentioned also 80-100 as a limit to lifespan. This is something ot overcome. some people might do things like buying half or partial tissue things from others to make their own bodily tissues (mostly) younger so they can keep themselves young, leaving others with half tissues. For example provided healthy someone.. the other can live with half a lung, half kidneys, reduced bone marrow volume, half a liver perhaps. Also hear replacement is ok with machine based implanted hearts. sections if intestine can be reimplanted also. it is too possible to implant own head onto body of others so then both of them alive (a single body sustaining two brains). although one will be slightly handicapped, still nerves can be connected to some sort of machine arms or computer interfaces.. soe both are able to interact in some way till technology is advanced enough. one might create genetically altered humans based slightly on some natural mutations perhaps or on the knock out of verious crucial neural processes This knock out of genes might be based on locations this might achieve less differentiation so supplanting with hromones is necessery for development of fetus body. resulting in brainless or even headless beings so there organs might be harvested. Although intestine has its nervous system, autonomous.. so this should be considered. This might very well be an easy thing to achieve. consider for example elephant zygote differnetiating into neuron upon not receving some supportive cell signals (me thinks. but my memory is vague). Thus it might be very easy to see wether a method works out or not to eliminate neurons can be tested in vitro. perhaps a single neuron doesnt feel much and its likely so.. as otherwise pretty much almost everything would feel anyway. Someone already have such possibilities from my point of view.. so then things should be developed for the better (minimizing damage).

Also u have mentioned authority. in a system the most intellectual should be placed provided its kind into authority positions. this is only possible if they pass some test, of the universe without them being able to receive equipment able to spy on the others progress. Other then this.. u might make a very open to change system .. then it is sure that at least sometimes it will be ok.. but evolution is just like this. It also has it's flaws. Also it might not even be possible in the first place to consider something as being open to change on all important levels. First the not even the universe is depcited as close to such (like u know i am tired to put it into words so perhaps later EDITPERHAPS).

GOOD THING U CREATE A RADIO. it is a step forward for a better verifiable information system. Also u might wanna make a metal detector and a head shielding helmet made up of multiple metals, and different strings of metals IN CASE THEY INDEED EXIST and bother u too much.
Post 24 May 2013, 04:51
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
rugxulo wrote:
You're too vague, and you expect too much. What did you think we were going to say? What did you think would happen? Will war ever disappear? All we can do is minimize the damage and avoid more wars. We can only control ourselves, not others. We're not expected to fix anyone else. We live one day at a time, and that's plenty for our own needs. Everything else is just overreaching.

If you don't like injustice, then don't perform it. If you want to help people, practice patience and kindness. You can't build up by tearing down (even if that is unavoidable sometimes).

am i vague, yes, probably,
am i expecting too much, yes, i expect a lot from this board,

this board is house of genius, programmers, elites, not people who work on street and do ordinary works, jobs, professionals are here,
i am not looking down people who works on streets, what i want to stress is, most members here are professionals in their own field.

idk what you people are going to say, thats why i ask,
idk what would happen, i seek you all advices,
idk how we should handle conflict, war and etc clashes,

we are not expected to fix anyone, but they are going to fix us, how you gonna deal with that?

i dont like injustice, but the idea you dont like injustice doesnt prevent other to perform injustice on you, and that is cruel hard truth,

even if you always help others, didnt perform injustice, never cruel, but others will disregard these and kill you, affect you, silent you, jail you, limit you, and etc out of humanity values,

rugxulo wrote:

You can't build up by tearing down (even if that is unavoidable sometimes).

so, what should we do?

rugxulo wrote:

Don't worry about all the worldly problems, just make sure you do your best to do good in your own way (without making things worse and without repaying evil for evil).

it is really good, i mean damn good if everybody try their best, do good in their own way, but apparently, we all know, the world, our society doesnt work this way, worldly problems affect us all, and people could draw their gun out and shot you without second thought, they could jail you with fake situation, proofs, ideas, whatever you name it, they could kill you even when you do nothing, as long as they want to kill you,

this is the world we live on,

to do nothing, say nothing,
mean we try to be innocent and ignorant to all those worldly problems around us,
Post 24 May 2013, 11:32
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2913
Location: [RSP+8*5]
bitRAKE
It is a paradox: to live in the world without conflict.

One could subjugate themselves into oblivion to live without conflict. And the outward perspective might appear that they were inviting conflict upon themselves. So, in the pursuit they became the vehicle for conflict.

It has long been the struggle to exist in balance with one's environment. Sadly, this includes the level of aggression and destruction. Not to say that we need to feed into these negativities, but rather living in an environment of conflict has one adopting the tone and mechanism of such a culture. We can apply pressures against it, but only to a certain extent. Lest we be completely separate from it and ineffectual in life.

A wise friend once told me, "Things not shared are lost."

To which I replied, "I hope so."

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Post 24 May 2013, 12:20
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hopcode



Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 563
Location: Germany
hopcode
sleepsleep wrote:
i dont like injustice, but the idea you dont like injustice doesnt prevent other to perform injustice on you, and that is cruel hard truth...
well said. and i dont see any pessimism in it.
revenge may be seen as a form of absence of equality/justice in something, to the to be/not to be, i would dare to say. most of the time it appears to be a personal justice; then follows
...the idea you dont like injustice doesnt prevent other to perform injustice...
sleepsleep wrote:
so, what should we do?
always the best Wink
like a karma-kamikaze, learning hope (i agree with both bitRAKE and bitRAKE's friend). learn to live together with one's own fear; learn to take advantage from it.
learn to convey energy wasted for revenge in something useful. my tipp would be also abstractly: never revenge !
but it is not so simple because of the unknown algorithm relating to the fullness/emptiness of justice of the "what is it".
never revenge has nonetheless an immediate advantage: you get immediately a discrete useful freedom in your head.
that is thanks the human capability of forgetting; most of the times automatically.

Cheers,
Very Happy

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Post 24 May 2013, 13:29
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matefkr



Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 1291
Location: Ukraine, Beregovo
matefkr
bitRAKE um wrong u are telling. prove it by logic that conflict is must. also conflict might be like abstract conflict well duh then do.. but then it means not all conflict are destructive neither all conflict are painfull.
Post 24 May 2013, 13:57
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hopcode



Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 563
Location: Germany
hopcode
matefkr wrote:
bitRAKE um wrong u are telling. prove it by logic that conflict is must.
no. he means it contingential: "...in balance with one's environment..."
your turn: prove right here+now without logic what a "must" is. then you are on the way to speak about "conflict".

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Post 24 May 2013, 14:16
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
sleepsleep

Do you really want to know what I have to say accordingly to your thoughts presented above? Make money, not politics. It's better to try to fix than to make a revolution. Moreover, don't tell people who are known under the real name here, posted their actual pictures and presented quite a bit of their private life that they are cowards. Show your face first if you are so courageous - why did you remove your picture from the FASM Forum Members thread?
Post 24 May 2013, 22:42
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hopcode



Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 563
Location: Germany
hopcode
MHajduk wrote:
Moreover, don't tell people who are known under the real name here, posted their actual pictures and presented quite a bit of their private life that they are cowards.
Show your face first if you are so courageous - why did you remove your picture from the FASM Forum Members thread?
???, MHajduk Shocked, for that flexible and well-educated person you are
from what i read from you... you know... everyone should be aware of one's own limits on one's own privacy. why you telling that ? if sleepsleep did so, there must be a reason, even when it is undisclosed for others. and may remain so IMO.
one should not fear anything: from laying out problems into discussions to travelling to the moon.
why you telling that ?

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Post 25 May 2013, 06:32
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
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YONG
hopcode wrote:
???, MHajduk Shocked, ... why you telling that ?
if MHajduk did so, there must be a reason, even when it is undisclosed for others. and may remain so IMO. Wink
Post 25 May 2013, 07:45
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hopcode



Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 563
Location: Germany
hopcode
YONG wrote:
if MHajduk did so, there must be a reason, even when it is undisclosed for others. and may remain so IMO. Wink
of course, yes.
but MHajduk do asks relating to the subject (revenge), while i asked him why he is relating his question (picture removed) to the subject
Very Happy

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Post 25 May 2013, 08:24
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matefkr



Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 1291
Location: Ukraine, Beregovo
matefkr
the must is just as a flee can flee.
Post 25 May 2013, 08:52
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
hopcode

In his post sleepsleep wrote that people here are afraid to show their true nature, feelings and thoughts while he is inconsequent in that because he tries to hide his personality too. I am known under the real name here, you know how do I look like and you have seen even a bit of the surroundings I live. You know quite a bit of my music taste, my dreams, life plans etc. etc.

I just felt "hot under the collar" when I read some parts of the sleepsleep post. I will emphasize them to make my point much clearer:
sleepsleep wrote:
people onboard, be it this board or etc board,

never really want to tell, share what and how they think,

there got people who just post to entertain u, or to entertain themselves,, or for the sake of post, u read their post, and u know it never comes from their heart, the sincerity is sub sub subset,

or people who know exactly what i ask, but try to respond it in a global way, common way,

conclusion, people really afraid to talk nowadays, or maybe people stop thinking for a long time already,
we allow insanity and we help them progress by keeping mum on lots of issue,

will truth, humanity, justice ever come if everybody keep mum?

ah, pray to dog, and relax,
Don't you really see the manner this post has been written? What does the phrase "pray to dog" exactly mean? Should I, as a non-believer, feel offended by those words of ex-Muslim? Should Christians feel offended too? Or maybe it is some allusion to Hinduism, hence rather positive? I'd like to hear an explanation from the sleepsleep mouth.

I know that we all here are friends but sometimes people here formulate their opinions in an unacceptable way. I have a great respect for sleepsleep but from time to time his posts seem to be intentionally written in an irritating manner.

The internal political problems of Malaysia don't excuse highly vicious language of the sleepsleep's post. What does he expect from us? This world is exhausted by so-called "revolutions" that always start from pure, crystal clear ideas and usually end with slaughtering and even cannibalism (you've heard of the last incidents in Syria, for sure). And he is trying to explain us it's OK to make riots and get revenge on somebody.

I don't really expect that sleepsleep will disclose his real face and name because I remember them from the time they were published in the FASM Forum Members thread (later removed).

If my post was offensive to sleepsleep or anybody else, then I'm very sorry and I would like to apologize him and others. But still deeply inside I feel upset by what has been told there.
Post 25 May 2013, 10:54
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