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Index > Heap > Suggestion: System Programming vs Ethical Hacking.

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Overflowz



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 1046
Overflowz
Hello everyone! I was really long time off because of job.. I need suggestion from you guys Smile I don't know where else should I ask help about this..
So, I'm trying to follow one of professions above, I need some suggestions.. I'm interested in both profession, they are like one for me, but if we talk about job, they require one of these and of course really well. Subjects of system programming are Assembly, C, C++, Java and Objective-C for Devices(ARM, PIC, etc...), Windows(WINAPI), Linux(POSIX), Mac/iOS(Cocoa) and Android(Android API). For ethical hacking, it's CEH courses.

Which of these professions should I learn first, so the second one will be become easy to learn?

Thank you!
Post 26 Mar 2013, 10:40
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1409
Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
Ethical?
Post 26 Mar 2013, 12:45
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Overflowz



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 1046
Overflowz
Post 26 Mar 2013, 12:48
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1409
Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
I see... basically, it is like preventing hacking, by learning hacking -- cool!..
Post 26 Mar 2013, 12:56
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Overflowz



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 1046
Overflowz
Yep Smile Thinking like an attacker is the best defense Very Happy
Post 26 Mar 2013, 13:00
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
Probably system programming first.
Hackers should have some knowledge about system programming, right?
Post 26 Mar 2013, 13:50
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Overflowz



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 1046
Overflowz
Yes, you're right, but it's about time and money now. Which of these professions are paid best?
Post 26 Mar 2013, 14:40
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1180
Location: Unknown
HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 21:15; edited 1 time in total
Post 26 Mar 2013, 16:10
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Overflowz



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 1046
Overflowz
HaHaAnonymous
According to this, I think programming is better Neutral http://www.technojobs.co.uk/jobs/c++-developer
Post 26 Mar 2013, 17:23
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 344
Location: Broken hippocampus
malpolud
My girlfriend works in a team that deals with different systems auditing and one of the teams tasks is to check systems resistance to crackers attacks. Basically there are a couple of guys who try to find holes by penetrative tests. Mostly these are programmers with good knowledge of networking, systems etc.

I don't know where are you from and how things look like in your country, but is this going to be your first IT job? The reason I ask is because from my observations it looks like while searching for a job more important is to have some previous work experience than strict education (I am a mechanical engineer and work as an embedded software programmer).

Most programming jobs require knowledge of java, .net, database - business applications.
Maintenance of obsolete business (nightmare imo) will mostly require C/C++ and dealing with 20+ years code written in a bad way Wink
Embedded programming is mostly C and ASM (very little ASM these days).
Some jobs will require knowledge of some protocols like networking protocols (hacking will do), in my job I deal with CAN, I2C, SPI etc, or some special devices (in my case micro-controllers), some jobs will require knowledge of some kind of operating systems like UNIX, in my case different RTOSes.

My advice is: get an IT related job asap and don't try to learn everything what you could ever need in such a job. There will always be things you won't know and your employer knows that. You will get appropriate training if you get the job.
Post 26 Mar 2013, 19:25
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
malpolud wrote:
Maintenance of obsolete business (nightmare imo) will mostly require C/C++ and dealing with 20+ years code written in a bad way Wink
More likely it's a kind of daymare, hehe. Razz
Post 26 Mar 2013, 19:55
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Overflowz



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 1046
Overflowz
malpolud
Thanks for great advice! I'm not starting working at first and I'm too far from IT. I was working 2 years for ASM/C/C++ programmer, doing different things but it was hard for me, cause as you said, there was really old code without documentation and was guessing everything. as of .NET I really hate it Very Happy I don't know why, but I hate M$ products Very Happy
as of embedded programming, I've never heard about it, I'm gonna try it.

So, I'll learn programming first, and after some years, at parallel I'll learn ethical hacking. I think it's best way for career Smile

Thank you!!!
Post 26 Mar 2013, 21:38
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
Overflowz wrote:
Which of these professions are paid best?


I think this in general depends on:
1. Your expertise
2. Supply & demand in the market
Post 27 Mar 2013, 01:35
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Overflowz



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 1046
Overflowz
Hacking is easy, programming is hard. So I'll follow programming first Smile
Post 27 Mar 2013, 10:02
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1180
Location: Unknown
HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 21:15; edited 1 time in total
Post 27 Mar 2013, 15:03
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Overflowz



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 1046
Overflowz
HaHaAnonymous
Talking it according to my experience Smile
Post 27 Mar 2013, 19:52
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 344
Location: Broken hippocampus
malpolud
Overflowz wrote:
as of embedded programming, I've never heard about it, I'm gonna try it.
Really? Wired, cause you mentioned ARM and PIC stuff in your first post Wink BTW, you don't usually use Objective C for it.

_________________
There's nothing special about it,
It's either there when you're born or not.
Post 27 Mar 2013, 20:08
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Overflowz



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 1046
Overflowz
malpolud
at this moment, I'm just interested with them but I hadn't done anything on them. Smile
Post 28 Mar 2013, 10:27
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matefkr



Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 1291
Location: Ukraine, Beregovo
matefkr
so first of all. when a piece of the security system maitanance team cant see the whole relevant network.. then its all but a joke to try to enhance systems security. This way it would be just gambling (akin to trusting.. these other people wont hack my system because they are afraid of something.. or because they are nice people). So thereby one must be able to supervise all the hardware features running on the machine as well as being aware of the encryption algorithms.. this is fairly bad when machines recquire human assistance. People must be aware of a range of things. yep. its all crap.. if you dont make your own integrated circuits and electronics and programs as well (although overseeing all the stuff is enough, then u should think that you had not memories overwritten.. wich is possible and known how to, was not demonstrated to me although).

So first and foremost one think about physical things.. and a some key logical things too when thinking about security.. then must gamble some decision.. and there it is.
one great danger is bloat in nowadays systems.. as on software level.. the other is of course the unknown hardware (as always).

I think rather just go with system programming then, or make a smaller integrated community where all can be produced and looked for. (altough its limited by total amount of power available.. wich is a security problem in a sence, would be needed nowadays, because look what the technology is used for. a lot of pain is caused with technology.. and it shouldnt be). Systems programming is so that.. u make a resource scheaduller for sharing resources (for whatever reason) and registration system for registering thigns and people and their accesses.. and a bunch of possibilities to interlink programs. plus communication protocols with the other elements of a cluster.. wich might however be hardcoded.. as anything can be.
the os must be small for security reasons on this level. and also made by a simple compiler (also small). forget about hardware features such as os software erasable eeproms .. so pick your hardware in a wise way, and have weapons and means to at least reverse engineer the hardware.. (to check if them are keeping themselves to what they say about the hardware, and be able to threathen them otherwise.. or u can have different kind of control methods over it, but it is possible if you meet with some wich is outside of your system you have to threaten or violate them. but again its connected to security).
If there is corrupt mind, then this can cause problem. otherwise.. if not all is mind, then there is no logical reason for conflict, war or harming of any sort. Although experiments might do minimal harm in some cases.. or more harm.. in the more wastefull aproach (this later for example when information is not interinked or not well checked enough and when minds are not standard enough and for example top level minds are rotten or unable to check some of those who they give control to). So should one in a rotten system consider about basicly lending self for the purpose of whatnot due to the task it will fulfill? of course when it comes with reward for self. sure. However.. i think it is important to consider the necessery amount of reward for self, and look for areas where self can have stable growth without providing too much for others (at least in a competitive system), yet have self fulfilled. This is the best strategy.. and only so much shouldbe provided wich can be seen that mostly fascilitates groth of self. this does not necesserily equal to the growth achieved when considering only highest possible growth (without considering not to give too much for others). So competitive economy here gives a clue that it might be suffuciently bullshit (overall) but realy what it mean is that there is no one system but coexisting competitive systems one slowing down the other (perhaps). Due to a range of things, however it is always can be considered (or for long) that there is an ingroup and a range of outgroups (temporarily at least). And u dont know yet the outgroup people. suppose you are born and you know outgroup people wich were hostile. then xyz conclusion.
So what is secure enough to chose (in regard of known dangers or known expectable dangers)? depends on point of view. but it has to consider a lot of things. And also the unkonw might be even more dangerous, and currently it is expectable that the unkown is yet much larger then currently known.. of course the extent of knowledge should be measurable.. and i cannot google it (in theory it is measurable if was recorded so in a good format and if has software and machine for calculating and preferably checking it, due to human untrustworthyness).

and could rant on about it for a while.. beh.. it all leads to a few things only leaving out outside unknown.
if there is something bad.. (a bad behaviour) there must be a tool to erase/modify this behaviour, by changing the something responsible for the behavior in a way that is definitive enough and doesnt have predictable bad sideffects, but dumb people will make more harm then not so .. unless the system is lucky). errors can be in multiple places, like inside self mind, or inside other minds and inside other physical constructs. blahbalhbalbhalbal


CONCLUSION:
do not learn either of these. courses. gather small verifiable group enough for making powerplant of some sorrt, food, some capability for improvement, sterilization of things.. ability for analyzis of cells or blood. able to make computer machines.. but first .. just make sure that your system protects well enough against infiltration of some sort 8because there is the bad kinda thing somewhere.. and it is there and if it is just a human though its connected to bad habbit, usually positively reinforced.. and humans dont forget habbits just like this.. even if they seem to forget it temporarily).
Post 04 Apr 2013, 06:24
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