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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
a friend of mine recently ask me a question,

if assembly language is so great, then what is the biggest ever program, or commercial application that ever created by it?

since most huge bloated applications are created using C, JAVA, .NET, C++ and so on,

so, what ASM application that we could be proud of?

at least we got something to say when people claim ASM only for hobby application.
Post 09 Feb 2013, 04:38
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17473
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revolution
How do you define 'big'. What measurement criteria are you using?
Code:
dw (1 shl 63-1) dup 0x1234    
Try assembling that!
Post 09 Feb 2013, 05:12
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
big or commercial success,
uses by 1 billion users,
known by 80% IT population
serving major industries, known as top 5

fully 100% or 70%+- ASM based solution.

something that we proud of.
Post 09 Feb 2013, 05:17
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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JohnFound
RollerCoaster Tycoon was written in assembly language.
Post 09 Feb 2013, 05:40
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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TmX
sleepsleep wrote:

fully 100% or 70%+- ASM based solution.

something that we proud of.


None, I guess.

I mean, is there a well known ERP system or BI (business intelligent) tool that is written mostly in assembly?

I'm not talking about compilers, device drivers, OS kernels, etc because they are targeted for developers, not end users.
Post 09 Feb 2013, 05:51
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
JohnFound wrote:
RollerCoaster Tycoon was written in assembly language.

chris sawyer rocks!
i love his transport tycoon deluxe! been playing it for years when i was kid
Post 09 Feb 2013, 06:02
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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JohnFound
Prior to 1990 there was many programs written in assembly. For example Borland TASM was pretty successful commercial product. I mean, if there was clients for such a product, it tells us that there was wide application for assemblers.
Post 09 Feb 2013, 06:09
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
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malpolud
That is the point and a pain in the ass of this board users.

Instead of doing cool things in assembly and sharing them with other users some of us just insult other languages users - throw stones at me, but it is a common fasm-board attitude.

Face it:
- business applications will never be written in assembly. A team of 10+ developers will work much more efficiently when dealing with HLL techniques.
- professional game developers will never use assembler, cause OO techniques, when used properly will give quite a lot of power and means to make a big, modifiable application (I wonder how many users here can use OO techniques well).
- most people will not write small applications for own use in assembly if the purpose is more important than the technique.
- the same reason as above explains why huge, professional software will never be written in assembly. Do you imagine a software like Matlab or Catia written entirely in assembly? I know some of you have written marvelous calculation engines, that have great instructive values, but it is still far away from something like MathCAD.

Keep in mind these things and the next time you fell like saying something about HLL vs ASM just seat down, relax, write some nice ASM code and post it here.
Post 09 Feb 2013, 09:38
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
well said,

it is important to "believe" that ASM rocks in order to continue using ASM, otherwise, it is better to switch to other language or HLL if they believe there is no chance to produce anything useful in future with ASM.

let us 1 million lines ASM application that will rocks this whole world!
Post 09 Feb 2013, 12:08
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
RadASM coded in pure assembly, I think.
But it is for ASM developers and not for wide consumer.
Post 09 Feb 2013, 13:00
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hopcode



Joined: 04 Mar 2008
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hopcode
malpolud wrote:
Instead of doing cool things in assembly and sharing them with other users...
and that's enough for me. well said. bravo!

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Post 09 Feb 2013, 13:20
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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f0dder
JohnFound wrote:
Prior to 1990 there was many programs written in assembly. For example Borland TASM was pretty successful commercial product. I mean, if there was clients for such a product, it tells us that there was wide application for assemblers.

But not necessarily for writing large chunks of program code, though.

Back then, computers were slow, so assembly mattered a lot more than it does today - and because the computers were slow and had limited memory (and compiler theory not as advanced), the compilers also had worse code generation than they do today.

Net effect: adding a few sprinkles of assembly could make really huge speed differences back then, even for "normal" programs. Like, sorting a few thousand items - compilers generated bad enough code that even for the same algorithm, there could be substantial performance gains by hand-rolling your own in assembly.

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Post 09 Feb 2013, 14:04
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cod3b453



Joined: 25 Aug 2004
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cod3b453
FASM obviously Razz

SimCity was another game written in assembly.

Some embedded DSP/communication, graphic and probably other applications use assembly due to MIMD ISA processors; not as high as 70%+ of the total code but I'm sure a lot of people have a digital TV box or wireless device.
Post 09 Feb 2013, 14:35
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HaHaAnonymous



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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 21:39; edited 1 time in total
Post 09 Feb 2013, 14:52
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Asm++



Joined: 04 Feb 2013
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Asm++
Hi everyone,
I think even C and C++ programmers using assembly explicitly as inline assembly, or implied as functions' infrastructure(some STD library of C and C++ have been written in assembly, and still maintained).

malpolud wrote:
- professional game developers will never use assembler, cause OO techniques, when used properly will give quite a lot of power and means to make a big, modifiable application...

Well, NO, actually game development one of the most programming fields that needs lots of optimization, so they actually using assembly language not just implied, but explicitly .

Want a proving? well, here it's:
https://www1.apply2jobs.com/InsomniacGames/ProfExt/index.cfm?fuseaction=mExternal.showJob&RID=1036

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Binary is nice, but Assembly is better!
Post 09 Feb 2013, 16:43
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HaHaAnonymous



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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 21:38; edited 1 time in total
Post 09 Feb 2013, 17:06
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Asm++



Joined: 04 Feb 2013
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Asm++
Quote:
I think we were talking about creating an entire game in assembly, no third party libraries, no openGL, no DirectX, no GDI, nothing. Only everything created from scratch.

My comment was based on this. Razz


I quote from sleepsleep,

Quote:
fully 100% or 70%+- ASM based solution.

He didn't say entirely.
Also RollerCoaster Tycoon have not been written entirely in assembly, C have been used as an interface for Windows, not just assembly and WinAPI.

Also, even HLLs programmers, do NOT build EVERYTHING from scratch, even in assembly, for example FASMW considered to be written in assembly(and it is), although it uses Windows' API.

So, writing Everything from scratch for each new application, is just unacceptable!

Consider Reimplementing the whole WinAPI, OpenGL or DirectX yourself!!

If someone have to build an OS before he can write his/her application, then we NEVER and will NEVER have all the applications and the technology we have and use today. Very Happy

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Binary is nice, but Assembly is better!
Post 09 Feb 2013, 18:12
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
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malpolud
HaHaAnonymous wrote:

Yes, why not? Calculations (no matter the complexity) in assembly are just more fun (if you like).


I think it is fun too. Moreover everything can be coded in assembly. But lets imagine a simple problem like multiplying two complex numbers. Witch OO, we create a class of complex numbers with members are Real and Imag and a method of multiplying - an overloaded operator *. When we want to expand out programs capability for multiplying elephants we just create a class of elephants, methods for elephants and overload * operator with multiplying elephants. That's why I like HLL's and find it useful.

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Post 09 Feb 2013, 18:21
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Dex4u



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Dex4u
Post 09 Feb 2013, 23:35
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Alphonso



Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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Alphonso
I think on the whole you have to take compilers for what they are, tools. Use the right tool for the right job (as long as it doesn't cost too much Razz ).

For instance a quote from John Carmack of Id Software
q1source.txt wrote:
This is the complete source code for winquake, glquake, quakeworld, and
glquakeworld.

The projects have been tested with visual C++ 6.0, but masm is also required
to build the assembly language files. It is possible to change a #define and
build with only C code, but the software rendering versions lose almost half
its speed.

I'm not a professional programmer so my view is quite limited but I do like asm because it seems so logical, well except for mov, and works well with the HW. Why wasn't ld (load) used instead of mov (move)?
Post 10 Feb 2013, 05:34
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