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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
world is getting weird day by day,

define:steal wrote:

Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: "thieves stole her bicycle".


so, the argument for stealing are
1. you take something without permission,
2. you don't intend to return it,

i don't think that is good definition,

if i take something from you without your permission, but you lost nothing, i clone exact same thing like yours, (may it data, object) is that steal? yeah, that is stealing

if the main argument is, to take something without permission, then what cause a thing to be protected by permission, that i must be granted permission before i could take it?

now, government tax people, fine people, they do it without my permission and they take my money, bank issue service charge, auto deduct my account without my permission,

what about service, things that that is totally monopoly by evil government & corporates?

they force me to sign and give up all my permissions and they can do whatever shit they want,

the situation here is,

government & corporate are free to steal everybody every fucking day,
but everybody cannot steal back from government & corporate.

government & corporate are thieves, they steal from people,
do i need their permission to take back whatever that they stole?

should i rob a bank?
Post 13 Jan 2013, 12:17
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
Banks rob people legally, if you try to rob a bank you'll end inside a jail, like a donkey. Pirating is like you said cloning and not taking something away (stealing).
Post 13 Jan 2013, 12:46
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hopcode



Joined: 04 Mar 2008
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hopcode
hallo sleepsleep,
you got it one more time ! Very Happy

in the 10 commandments, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
the 1st sounds this way
"I am the LORD thy God"

it is the declaration of a properties in the word "thy" = your
supposed to be belonging to the human being. the accepted meaning should apply:

I am YOUR God... and it must be that or nothing!

one accepts that properties without considering it may
be forcing someone to give it the meaning it presumes to deserve.
but this mere first commandment is the first (syl)logical issue too.

now, barely as example, because "Power" and "Gold" rules the world, we should be honest and consequently we should apply this substitution in place of the 1st commandment:

instead of "I am the LORD thy God"
set there the 8th commandment:

"Thou shalt not steal"

because the first is still a logical robbery, in the sense that
one should not be forced to the attribution of that property (thy = your)
to that God above.
"Power" and "Gold" because concrete means of "ownership".

follows a sad truth: it is to say, for anyone on the surface of this planet earth,
one is being robbed or he must being there stealing something from someone/something,
or both things in the same time.

this is in the occidental/pyramidal way of thinking.
under this concept, if you hold pace with it logically,in the moment you think
you are stealing/being robbed something/of something.
this is the philosophy, or what it seems to be the beginning of the decadence (syllogism now explained, after considering reality as the degeneration from the perfection)

but i for myself, i have tried to break that "vicious cycle".
for sure, i dont belong to that pyramidal "way of thinking".

Very Happy
Cheers,

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Post 13 Jan 2013, 13:28
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
hi hopcode, glad to see you here,

btw, i actually have problem with god that talks or send any books to human, but that is another issue. Smile

on what basis when god said, i am your god?
i am your god who allow people baby to die, allow animal to get killed for food, allow people to get raped, get robbed, get slaughtered,

i am your god who stop talking after i talked to moses and abraham,
i am your god because i know what is good for you, and you should go through these in order to become real man,
i am your god who allow so many negative experiences on earth, and i ask you not to steal others, not to greedy, not to lust, not commit adultery, not be false witness.
i am your god, i got full power and full control, but all the negative things still happened and i claim i am still in control.
i am your fucking god Smile

people who believe god talking, prophet fly to meet god and other insane events would have no problem to believe anything else, they are poisoned, drugged.

ownership, what is ownership ( that is another issue )
for me, there is hardly any ownership, we all just merely take control of this particular thing/idea/ for limited time frame,
if you cannot control it well, you will lose control of it, and others will come in and control it,
even if you are the first person to control/own it, it doesn't makes it yours.

what government/corporate doing is, they use fucking LAW, they use MONEY to buy all resources and put them into black & white paper to state ownership.
i could own lots of lands, i could never manage it, and i will never let others manage it,

using such idea, it means, i agree, we must invade another country and bring peace, prosperity to them if their ruler are fucking bastard who treats its people cruelly.

hopcode wrote:

one is being robbed or he must being there stealing something from someone/something,
or both things in the same time.

i would view it in this way,
let us kick away people who do nonsense with what they possessed,
kick away people who do monopoly and bring difficulties to other human,
kick away government/corporate who keep on stealing others without the idea to benefit everybody and bring peace to everybody.
anything, (idea, system, culture) that don't bring into truth, humanity and justice, should be kick away, by hook or by crook.
Post 13 Jan 2013, 15:06
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 22:01; edited 1 time in total
Post 13 Jan 2013, 15:47
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1408
Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
When people sign up for bank accounts, they agree to bank fees.
No surprise here. And no stealing here. Just paying for a service.
In a recent recession, it is a bank's fault, they they give loans to
people who cannot pay it back.
Post 13 Jan 2013, 15:57
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
HaHaAnonymous wrote:
asmhack wrote:
Banks rob people legally...

That's a serious accusation. I just hope you can prove that.


Prove what? The connection between banking system and governments?


AsmGuru62 wrote:

When people sign up for bank accounts, they agree to bank fees.
No surprise here. And no stealing here. Just paying for a service.
In a recent recession, it is a bank's fault, they they give loans to
people who cannot pay it back.

Having a 1.000.000.000$ capital isn't called a service. It's called cash accumulation in order to rule worker's ass.

Democracy is about same opportunities for all the people.
-Can I open a bank with 10.000$ ?
-No.

You know why? Because they don't want everyone to create cash flow, only 5-6 families from every country, so it's easy to CONTROL and buy them, when things get messy.
Post 13 Jan 2013, 16:10
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uart777



Joined: 17 Jan 2012
Posts: 369
uart777
Laws? I only respect the ones based on cause-and-effect - anything that causes mental, physical or emotional harm is wrong: theft, rape, murder, etc. There are so many "dumb laws" (search). In most states, "oral sex is illegal". In Florida, "only the missionary position is legal" and "it's illegal to have sexual relations with a porcupine". In Baltimore, "it's illegal to take a lion to the movies".
Quote:
we must invade another country
Sad Sad US government are militant thugs who take over countries by force and kill innocent women and children in sandals. "Might makes right" philosophy. Americans DO NOT agree with the "war"! but we are not in control. Drug corporations are.

US government is the biggest drug dealer in the world. They impose dangerous chemical-based drugs on millions of children, especially meth/amphines - desoxyn, ritalin, concerta, grudamet, etc - but they give the same substances different names to make people think they're nothing like the street versions. But this is another issue/post.

All this anger inspires me to make a game: "Throw Shoes at Obama!" Smile
Post 13 Jan 2013, 16:29
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
In U.S. the whole economy is based on drugs and weapons, so Obama can't do anything about it, neither his economology 'nobelists'.
Post 13 Jan 2013, 16:36
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
@asmhack:
"Democracy" is not the thing you mentioned at all.
Post 13 Jan 2013, 16:53
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hopcode



Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 563
Location: Germany
hopcode
uart777 wrote:
Laws? I only respect the ones based on cause-and-effect...
hallo uart,
this recalls me the merovingian in matrix. but the fact that he knows about the exsistence/difference of a real-reality from an appearing-one doesnt help him to escape his condition Wink

ohia sleepsleep,
it is full of details what you say, and it needs accurate examination.
perhaps there is a major key in those statements, a key that can solve other things.

ok, yes, religion is a mental drug.
it acts on imagination (as spoken in other thread)

religion is "religare" = to bind together ("re" = again "ligare"=bind).
now comes into scene the "pyramidal" i meant above:

to bind oneself, i said, but the human beings binding himself as God's sklaves.
(the ancient latin word you find in the bible is "servus" = slave)

once having got a slave from a human being,
that human being has only 2 degrees of freedom in that relative slavery:

1) expecting "justice" (read it justness) from the powerful master
- because all human beings seek justice (german "Gerechtigkeit")

2) expecting "justification" from his own acting and thinking.
- because all human beings need reasons for their bad/good conduct

the first act on the "mental" side (germ. "geistlich"),
the second more on the emotional one.
the concept of justice has a lot to do with deserving. but for this, see later.

or oppositely, give a person those 2 degrees of freedom, and you will got
in most cases a pyramidal religious follower from him (historically tested)

anyways, every human being prone to this scheme is a mature field for every
mental/corporal abuse:

"evil" people may abuse to that person, steal him, kill him etc.
for the time he lives, he will accept passively, or at least (live hoping)
without doing much against. because he lives only under those 2 degrees
of freesom in his head.
the "justification" of those evil people is included in that way of thinking.
they may appear good people too!

i dont say that the "Law" (the 10 comendments) is wrong.
because every social community or group has rules, and this may be the reason
why the old-ones wrote that "Law".
without rules,it wouldnt be worth the name of "community" or "social group".

i do say there may be better social laws than those we have in the "Law" above.

and i added "sad truth", because it works effectively so in the social
mind of the world. human beings steal, or are being robbed, or both.

Now,
one can say that "justness" is justness of a monthly wage.
or "justification" because after starving one month
cause of an extreme poor wage, one robbed the drugstore to avoid
starving to the end.
one can say, on the contrary, that he deserves a measured good wage.
it is "unjust" that he hasnt got it. he should not starve to death,
and this is the last "unjust" matter.

doesnt he deserve a good wage ?

under the word "Law" i mean a social/philosophical expansion on the
main religious concept.

justice is attribution: it means: "what it is, is and MUST be that way"
justice is recognition/agreement on standards.
attribution is "giving a property to what is"
and yelding a property to something leads to the ownership of it, in the occilands.
here in the occilands,things are the names you call them, not else.

for this reason, "deserving" is bound to the things essentially by names.
names, they say, are essentially handles, they say.
well, in the same way a human being is bound to his god, by religion.

but the fact that things are called that way is absolutely not necessary.
in fact, going into details:

1) if things are what they are, they dont need names/properties.(apply now it to "God")

2) corollary: if things are their names, this doesnt mean they are necessary to our context.
(i mean Aristotle's necessity, ἀναγκαῖος from ἀνάγκη http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananke_%28mythology%29 )

also, after those 2 last reasons, one major law, other than the one above of the 10 commadments,
has a reason to live and consist.

Cheers,
Very Happy

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Post 13 Jan 2013, 17:00
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hopcode



Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 563
Location: Germany
hopcode
HaHaAnonymous wrote:
asmhack wrote:
Banks rob people legally...
That's a serious accusation. I just hope you can prove that.

they adopt software created from Java programmers. and this is enough to explain how/why banks on their turn are being robbed too.
they learn from Java programmers. in fact their software is legal.

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Post 13 Jan 2013, 17:23
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
asmhack wrote:
Democracy is about same opportunities for all the people.


AsmGuru62 wrote:
@asmhack:
"Democracy" is not the thing you mentioned at all.


So basically you tell me that democracy is not rule of the people but the rule of the strongest?
Oooor you think that democracy means Just voting?
I would answer you in Greek, what δημοκρατία means, but i'll not bother, cuz you won't understand me..
We just can't gasp the substance, a word carries. Or we haven't learned, to do so, my dear english uzer.

You see, nowadays we're forced to speak in English, treating words like terms, ignoring the moral dimension of the word, and that's why we simply never will have, all equal rights, among the globe, because we are stuck in terminology.

Smile
Post 13 Jan 2013, 18:19
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HaHaAnonymous



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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 22:01; edited 1 time in total
Post 13 Jan 2013, 18:59
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hopcode



Joined: 04 Mar 2008
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hopcode
asmhack wrote:
...ignoring the moral dimension of the word, and that's why we simply never will have, all equal rights, among the globe...

not at all. words/terms have moral dimension because you give them one.
also, human beings have moral dimension, not words/terms.
these are subtlities... and only the corollary.

the way they consider democracy, is their way. this doesnt mean they are wrong about democracy. but the way they consider democracy is one way. it may be "voting" or from "the power of the strongest". also, you should explain the pros/contras/reasons about that, or better what your meaning is under the term "democracy".

but those who embrace democracy in their way do not share equal rights with you, if you do not embrace/accept the same basical human/social conditions of them.

also, it's your turn now
Very Happy

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Post 13 Jan 2013, 20:36
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
HaHaAnonymous wrote:
asmhack wrote:
Banks rob people legally...

That's a serious accusation. I just hope you can prove that.


bank combine with their evil government, print 100 million dollars,
look, out of nowhere

now, ask yourself, how many fucking years we all need to work, save to own even a tiny 500 thousands?

the US government is simply an idiot one, they got bought by federal reserve, now the US government owed Federal Reserve 100 million dollar, look, FR is not event a government agency, it is notorious fucking private agency.

what fucking system is that?

the big question is, why only he could fucking print money and use it?
but all others must need to work their 24/7 shit to gain a little wage?

AsmGuru62 wrote:
When people sign up for bank accounts, they agree to bank fees.
No surprise here. And no stealing here. Just paying for a service.
In a recent recession, it is a bank's fault, they they give loans to
people who cannot pay it back.


is bank depend on its customer?
or
customer depend on bank?

bank need initial money to start lending, they ask people to save & put money in their bank so that they could lend it out,

the role change,

now customer need to pay service charge for allowing bank to lend out their money,

when you bank in your cheque, money, they don't ask your permission to use it, they take it as, it is their, and they can use it in the way they see fit.

how is that fucking system works that my money in bank is considered their money?

consider the lend out profit that bank got by using your money, how many 0.0000000 percent do bank share with you?

this whole thing is robbing.
Post 14 Jan 2013, 03:07
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
uart777 wrote:

All this anger inspires me to make a game: "Throw Shoes at Obama!" Smile


Image


PS. I never knew jpg images support animations like GIFS. Shocked Shocked

I learned something today
Post 14 Jan 2013, 04:19
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Coty



Joined: 17 May 2010
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Coty
^ They don't, I bet if you open it in a hex editor it will have a gif header "GIF89a" Very Happy

Now you learned 2 things today! Very Happy
Post 14 Jan 2013, 05:40
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 431
asmhack
Coty wrote:
^ They don't, I bet if you open it in a hex editor it will have a gif header "GIF89a" Very Happy

Now you learned 2 things today! Very Happy


Laughing
Post 14 Jan 2013, 16:04
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
Awesome game!
Post 14 Jan 2013, 16:07
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