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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
Any experienced C# users in this board (f0dder, maybe)?

http://blog.xamarin.com/eight-reasons-c-sharp-is-the-best-language-for-mobile-development/

I'm particularly interested in this point:
Quote:

On Android, C# performs better than Java both because of language design choices
(support for value types, real generic types, non-virtual method defaults)
and the more mature Mono runtime compared to the relatively young Dalvik.


As a Java guy, I found C# appealing (quite brilliant marketing, actually Laughing )
I think I'll give Mono for Android a try. Unfortunately, it's pretty expensive.
Post 04 Jan 2013, 07:37
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JohnFound



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JohnFound
From my point of view, both Java and C# are the same junk. Laughing
Post 04 Jan 2013, 07:49
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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TmX
JohnFound wrote:
From my point of view, both Java and C# are the same junk. Laughing


Well, there is a saying "One person's junk is another person's treasure"

Some people prefer the purist (assembly) way, while the other don't mind embracing HLL features

Very Happy
Post 04 Jan 2013, 08:17
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
how is managing 0 and 1 could get into so complex?
it should be very simple and clear, but we keep on introduce layers and layers,

i like c# syntax =P
if fasm could assemble c# code to native win32/64, wow!
Post 04 Jan 2013, 08:55
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
C# has its place in business programming.
Take our beloved FASM for example: how much time one needs to
produce a robust program in FASM? The time taken to do it is so long,
that product idea itself becomes no longer "business worthy". In C#
however, the impressive program can be done in time sufficient for
business purposes.

So, every language has its place.
As an example:

I am writing IDE for FASM, which will use OO features to make the
coding faster (classes, code reuse, etc.). But I am using FASM itself to
develop it, and it has been a very long time since I am at it (sigh...).
Post 04 Jan 2013, 15:21
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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JohnFound
AsmGuru62 wrote:
C# has its place in business programming.
Take our beloved FASM for example: how much time one needs to
produce a robust program in FASM? The time taken to do it is so long,
that product idea itself becomes no longer "business worthy". In C#
however, the impressive program can be done in time sufficient for
business purposes.


It is a prejudice. I am writing successfully "business" programs in FASM. Well, actually programs for industrial machinery. And some of them works for years now without any complaints.

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Post 04 Jan 2013, 16:25
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
I coded a lot of these machinery programs in 90s.
They are very simple things.

C# is for more advanced things, like opening Excel file and filling the
cells. Also, C# allows to write a LOT of code fast. Say, you need a system,
which integrates with some live database, like in the trade application and
makes a zillion reports. In C# you'd be ready in a couple of months with a
small team of devs. Try the same in pure FASM!

Not only you need to hire good FASM coders, but also pay them a lot
for a year or so. And that system was needed quick. Not going to work.
Post 04 Jan 2013, 17:40
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JohnFound



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JohnFound
AsmGuru62 wrote:
I coded a lot of these machinery programs in 90s.
They are very simple things.


Well, it is not 90s outside and the requirements for the industrial machinery are not the same. Now we have to deal with networks, databases, statistical data collection, client-server architectures and ERP systems, besides the machine control itself. In fact, out factory (55000sq.m. production area) is one big unified system and the new created machines must be integrated flawlessly in the whole.

But all these requirements are possible to be implemented in assembly language. And actually it is not so hard, compared with HLLs. IMO, the assembly language programs are even easier for debugging and can make more with less resources.

For example we have great problems with HLL programs (from the 3-th party manufactures) because of the high resource consumption. These monsters need powerful computers that have fan cooling and generally speaking are very hard to be supported in industrial environment.

My machines usually need only very light computers, so I usually put there weak, industrial grade fanless PC that simply works without any support for years.

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Post 04 Jan 2013, 18:20
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
AsmGuru62 wrote:
C# has its place in business programming.
Take our beloved FASM for example: how much time one needs to
produce a robust program in FASM? The time taken to do it is so long,
that product idea itself becomes no longer "business worthy". In C#
however, the impressive program can be done in time sufficient for
business purposes.

i think, the main reason,

is because we got no solid framework to ease the common task,

by solid framework, i mean, a robust framework that presented solutions and integration.

no doubt, assembly language is really cool, in fact, it makes things whole lot simple, because we control the machine registers directly, and 80% might be doing MOV instruction. (i think there is a charts there some time ago that shows the most popular instruction in most applications)

object oriented is a good thing, procedural is good,
but we are here to create impossible Cool

when people think, only OOP could solve the whole craziness,
we presented a whole new idea of coding application using assembly language.
Post 04 Jan 2013, 18:31
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AsmGuru62



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AsmGuru62
That is my IDE is about: reusing classes in a smart way.
Like LEGO.
Post 04 Jan 2013, 19:17
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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TmX
Why does this thread become a "C# vs assembly" thread? Very Happy
I know some people will prefer assembly: it's simpler, closer to hardware, more resource efficient, etc.

What I'm asking if it's true whether Mono will outperform Dalvik or not.
I don't know much about language design & JIT technology, so I won't dare to comment Smile
Post 05 Jan 2013, 01:31
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uart777



Joined: 17 Jan 2012
Posts: 369
uart777
Regardless of language, programming is only as difficult as you make it. C# is gay. Just another dumb ass idea from Microsoft that will be deprecated soon. You can't eat red meat or work on Sundays.

sleep: Not mov/ld/etc. push is most common/frequent instruction according to statistics, especially in stack-based architectures.

Microsoft, suck on this Razz

Code:
include 'z.inc' 

TEXT t(128),\ 
 f='EXAMPLE.TXT',\ 
 s='EXAMPLE TEXT DATA' 
n=s.$ 

code 
create f   ; create file 
write s, n ; write to current file 
close      ; close after create 
open f     ; reopen 
read t, n  ; read to t 
say t      ; display text 
close      ; close after open 
execute f  ; ShellExecute maximize 
exit       ; ExitProcess 0     
Post 05 Jan 2013, 09:27
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pool



Joined: 08 Jan 2007
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pool
..


Last edited by pool on 17 Mar 2013, 12:21; edited 2 times in total
Post 05 Jan 2013, 15:10
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HaHaAnonymous



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HaHaAnonymous
[ Post removed by author. ]


Last edited by HaHaAnonymous on 28 Feb 2015, 22:05; edited 1 time in total
Post 05 Jan 2013, 15:18
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pool



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pool
..


Last edited by pool on 17 Mar 2013, 12:21; edited 1 time in total
Post 05 Jan 2013, 15:45
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
pool wrote:
In https://store.xamarin.com/ a Mac OSx with .NET Framework?.


No, that's MonoTouch (for iOS development).

Try this, if you're looking for the one for OSX:
http://www.go-mono.com/mono-downloads/download.html
Post 06 Jan 2013, 15:13
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OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
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OzzY
Qt is getting ported to Android and iOS. I'd choose it any day over C#.
Post 11 Jan 2013, 00:25
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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TmX
OzzY wrote:
Qt is getting ported to Android and iOS. I'd choose it any day over C#.


Is there any up-to-date Qt to C# binding?
Using C# for both iOS and Android development would be cool. I think C# is a nice language, compared to Java, and ...uggh Objective-C

Very Happy
Post 11 Jan 2013, 01:40
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OzzY



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OzzY
TmX wrote:
Is there any up-to-date Qt to C# binding?


Qyoto
Post 13 Jan 2013, 13:58
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aq83326



Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Posts: 21
aq83326
I love asm too, but C# is a pretty great language to me. I don't actually like the forced used of automatic memory management, but it's a much much saner language than C++.
I don't know anything about the claims made by Xamarin though.
If I ever make Android/iOS apps, I'll use their product. Also C# can be used for PlaystationMobile.

It's not just about speed of writing code though. What makes them faster for development is how interfaces are already defined and there are huge code libraries available that come for free.
Interfaces make the world go round and in asm everyone would write their own.
I do wonder what would have happened if there were more macro focus, but in the past it was more practical to write in a HLL that compiled to assembly; there were also more ISA's around at the time. What does one have to worry about today? x86 and ARM, that's mostly it. Desiring further portability it was taken further and now we have virtual machines. Another thing I don't get is why vm ISA's tend to be so simple. The machines are virtual and the programmer rarely uses them directly. They could be as cool as you want them to be.
Post 25 Jan 2013, 06:12
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