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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
Interesting list here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_home_computers

Before 1990, there were lots of computers: Amiga, TRS 80, Commodore 64, BBC Micro, etc etc.

Now, we practically only have 2: IBM-PC compatible and Macintosh computers (of course running X86/X86-64).

We can see a big gap here.
I wonder what made such interesting competition cease?
Post 21 Dec 2012, 05:06
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
TmX wrote:
I wonder what made such interesting competition cease?
My guess would be that people realised that software was more valuable than the hardware and wanted compatibility from one system to the next.

But perhaps we can also consider the new markets that have opened up recently: Tablets and phones. When will the day come that we can only buy either generic-phone-X compatible or iSlave systems?

Markets seem to always initially fragment and then later merge into just a few choices. Once the people have found a "winner" they tend to stay there for a very long time. Of course "winner" is not necessarily the "best" or most useful, but often the one with the most persuasive advertising behind it. And the advertising takes many forms, it could be by mass media or word of mouth or simply a good price and availability. But most importantly it must run the software that people already have. Without the support for existing software the average person will have no use for it.
Post 21 Dec 2012, 05:15
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
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JohnFound
You have to count all computers "in home", if you want to make honest comparison. Now you have computers in the TV-box, mobile phone (and in the normal wire phone) in the washing machine, in the car, etc. And there are hundreds of different architectures. So, now there are more "home computers" than before 90's Smile
Post 21 Dec 2012, 05:23
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Picnic



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1288
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Picnic
TmX wrote:
Before 1990, there were lots of computers: Amiga, TRS 80, Commodore 64, BBC Micro, etc etc.

I saw Cinemaware's Defender of the Crown 1 in Amiga at a computer exhibition in 1987 and listen to Axel-f song 2. I fell in love.
Those two things made me sell my C64 and buy one, and then another one...and another one... Razz
It seems that many believed in the revival of the Amiga, the machine's rights changed hands so many times, i lost count. Unfortunately without significant result.
Post 24 Dec 2012, 07:49
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
JohnFound wrote:
You have to count all computers "in home", if you want to make honest comparison.


OK, bad wordings. Obiously what I mean is desktop computer. Very Happy
I don't know the real situation of computing world in the 1980's (was a small kid at that time), but I think it's great to have lots of computers too choose.
Post 24 Dec 2012, 16:33
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Goplat



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 181
Goplat
JohnFound wrote:
You have to count all computers "in home", if you want to make honest comparison. Now you have computers in the TV-box, mobile phone (and in the normal wire phone) in the washing machine, in the car, etc. And there are hundreds of different architectures. So, now there are more "home computers" than before 90's Smile
To me, a "computer" means something which can be programmed to do whatever computation the user desires (in theoretical terms, can be programmed in some Turing-complete language), limited only by available memory. The devices you mention may have a microprocessor in them, but the program it runs is fixed in ROM and there's no way for the user to change it, so as far as the user is concerned they're just fixed-function devices and not computers.

Right now we're witnessing a disturbing trend: computing power is being intentionally taken away from ordinary people. On Apple's iProducts, the OS has the ability for loading new software but is deliberately crippled so that it only allows software approved by Apple. If you want to program it yourself, you have to pay $100 per year for the development license. Microsoft is following suit; Windows RT tablets likewise only run code approved by Microsoft.

In the short term, the next steps are to kill the "home PC", so the only way to run Windows desktop or OS X programs will be to buy a $2000 business workstation, and to extend the "can load approved software only, developer license costs $$$" model there too. In the long term, we'll likely see more consolidation of the software industry into fewer/larger companies and increases in the development license price (the two feed back into each other: a bigger company can afford to pay a higher price, and a higher price encourages more mergers to save money by not paying it twice). Eventually, there will only be a few dozen software companies and getting a license to program will cost $millions.
Post 24 Dec 2012, 17:45
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
I doubt that very much.
The ability to program with no restrictions is what made a PC revolution.
It is not going to be taken away -- hard to imagine that.
Post 24 Dec 2012, 19:18
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Goplat



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
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Goplat
AsmGuru62 wrote:
I doubt that very much.
The ability to program with no restrictions is what made a PC revolution.
It is not going to be taken away -- hard to imagine that.
This is what the powerful moneyed interest groups want, though:
  • OS vendors want to extract rent from all software production and sales - an open OS means no way to enforce either
  • Other companies selling software want to have no competition - open OSes allow free software
  • Media companies want to make piracy impossible by preventing people from sharing files - open OSes allow file sharing software
  • Governments want to spy on everybody's communication - open OSes allow encryption software
Keeping our right to program for another 30 years is likely to be a difficult battle... There was a good talk related to this a while ago by Cory Doctorow called The Coming War on General Purpose Computation
Post 25 Dec 2012, 03:49
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
Interesting... all the points you mentioned promote open OS-es.
Post 25 Dec 2012, 05:04
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
somehow i thought the following,
what cause a computer to be called a computer,
what is data, what is signals
what is ownership, what is public, what is private
what is stealing, what is sharing

maybe we dont need these words to exists if we are human who behave more like human,

if one not belong here,
one dont want to change anything here,
maybe one bought a ticket to see how fucked up the whole human things,
Post 25 Dec 2012, 05:31
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
Some people are fucked up, but not the whole humanity.
Post 25 Dec 2012, 12:13
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DOS386



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1901
DOS386
> Before 1990, there were lots of computers: Amiga, TRS 80,
> Commodore 64, BBC Micro, etc etc.

Many bad designs competing with each other (partially sharing faults ...)

> Now, we practically only have 2: IBM-PC compatible and Macintosh
> computers (of course running X86/X86-64).

So we have only ONE ... or anyone has "ARM" ??? I don't Sad

> We can see a big gap here.
> I wonder what made such interesting competition cease?

The DRUG: called "Windows" ???

> great to have lots of computers too choose

It isn't great because stuff you download doesn't run on your computer, stuff your friend uses doesn't run on your computer, and you can't install a virus on the computer of your boss (or whoever evil), because you can program only yours and the boss (or whoever evil) uses a very different one Very Happy

Quote:
Right now we're witnessing a disturbing trend: computing power is being intentionally taken away from ordinary people. On Apple's iProducts, the OS has the ability for loading new software but is deliberately crippled so that it only allows software approved by Apple. If you want to program it yourself, you have to pay $100 per year for the development license. Microsoft is following suit; Windows RT tablets likewise only run code approved by Microsoft.


I don't have any iCRAP Wink

> all the points you mentioned promote open OS-es

COOL. But don't forget open + unpatented file formats, preferably well designed too (bad examples: AAAC DOCX STAFF-IT ...)

Same for the Internet:
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/how-the-internet-became-a-closed-shop-20121221-2brcp.html

> Some people are fucked up, but not the whole humanity

How much ? 0.1% ? or 99.9 %?

_________________
Bug Nr.: 12345

Title: Hello World program compiles to 100 KB !!!

Status: Closed: NOT a Bug
Post 25 Dec 2012, 12:56
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
DOS386 wrote:
> great to have lots of computers too choose

It isn't great because stuff you download doesn't run on your computer, stuff your friend uses doesn't run on your computer, ...
Oh, you mean like Linux today? Twisted Evil
Post 25 Dec 2012, 13:09
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DOS386



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1901
DOS386
YES, Your friend uses Linux and has something VERY COOL, and you can't run it on your PC without Linux Smile

This thread is about the past. Discussion about the future: http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=14900


Last edited by DOS386 on 25 Dec 2012, 15:32; edited 1 time in total
Post 25 Dec 2012, 13:32
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
AsmGuru62 wrote:
Some people are fucked up, but not the whole humanity.


1000 person in a room, 999 bow down, are you the 1 who will going to stand still?

6.9 billion bow down to military, government, private sectors copyright, patent, restrictions, technology transfer pressure, 0.1 become an0nymous lone wolf?
Post 25 Dec 2012, 14:54
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
Your facts are from emotion -- not from reality.
Post 25 Dec 2012, 16:48
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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TmX
DOS386 wrote:

So we have only ONE ... or anyone has "ARM" ??? I don't Sad


They are ARM boxes like A9home or Trim-Slice.

I think not so many people use ARM on their primary desktop systems.
Post 26 Dec 2012, 02:40
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
TmX wrote:

I wonder what made such interesting competition cease?

i would say,
microsoft and its windows operating system.
Post 26 Dec 2012, 06:36
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
According to other thread -- ARM architecture is a future.
Time will tell -- as always (like in a case of Mayans Smile ).
Post 26 Dec 2012, 11:49
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KevinN



Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 161
KevinN
Adapteva is pushing that 64 core "parallela" processor
Post 26 Dec 2012, 14:06
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