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Index > Heap > all the shootings, gun banned, let me share the reason

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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
revolution wrote:
ManOfSteel wrote:
Yep, armed guards; armed principals, administrators and directors; door metal detectors; bullet proof doors and windows; and automatic locks on all the doors that can be controlled by the above people.
We already have that, they are called prisons. Perhaps that is where society is heading, into a police state/country/world/planet to "protect" us from all forms of harm.

Yes, let's pretend that ensuring the security of thousands of children is the same as locking up criminals away from the rest of society. Because, that's right, prisoners can freely roam inside the prison all day long and leave in the afternoon. Laughing

Do you want to protect the freedom of law-abiding citizens to carry weapons and be safe wherever they go or do you want to remove that freedom and instead protect the freedom of criminals to get weapons illegally and start shooting at the first group?
Because that's what it's all about in the end. It's not about some nefarious scheme coming from the elite (war on drugs, war on terror, PATRIOT ACT), it's about giving every single person, who respects the basic laws of the society in which they live, the chance and ability to defend him/herself.


edfed wrote:

the stadium full of hugly and fat people supporting their favorite teams, and applauding the governor speach before the match.

i believe the america is a really false system, but it will certainly be the only society to survive in many centuries cause it is the best model for lazyness and honor without real competence.

Demagoguery reigns supreme pretty much everywhere on Earth because people are content with their sheep status. And the USA is no exception.
I doubt the USA will survive that long. In fact, seeing how things are constantly regressing, I doubt *Humanity* will survive that long, bar some collective epiphany or some global catastrophe that resets everything to the "factory default settings".
Our society is riddled with self-destructive tendencies contrary to evolutionary organic progress. Sometimes, I can't help but see Humanity as a big failure.
Post 20 Dec 2012, 20:09
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
AsmGuru62 wrote:
The places, like schools, must be protected by a couple of guards with weapons.
Just in case like the latest one.


We have cops here rolling around. Public Safety as we call them. They're the ones who actually lock the school building after 10/11PM.

Sometimes they move around hallways. But it doesn't mean "that guy" couldn't be able to plant a C4 charge there. lol Shocked Laughing
Post 20 Dec 2012, 22:17
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17270
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
ManOfSteel wrote:
Yes, let's pretend that ensuring the security of thousands of children is the same as locking up criminals away from the rest of society. Because, that's right, prisoners can freely roam inside the prison all day long and leave in the afternoon. Laughing
The physical processes are the same. Locks and guards etc. to keep people controlled in one place. The social policies about how and when to release people differ but that is only by convention.

I think the wrong "solution" is moar weapons and moar security because this creates more of the antagonistic attitude and compounds the very problems that are supposedly begin solved. The locked up and controlled children of today become familiar with the environment of authority's iron fist control and a significant proportion of the future adults of tomorrow feel a need to push back with moar weapons and less respect for others.
Post 20 Dec 2012, 23:32
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1409
Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
There is nothing wrong with America.
America is fine (George Carlin).

House with green garden -- very nice.
Pompom girls -- even nicer.
Sport fans -- nothing wrong with that either.

I do not see how it all makes people sheep.
Post 21 Dec 2012, 01:40
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
it makes them sheep when everybody is the same as others. personnally, i'd perfer to just have a small land with trees and a little cave. i hate the popular people like the team captain and pompom girls cause they are really really really superficials.
Post 21 Dec 2012, 09:19
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KevinN



Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 161
KevinN
Post 21 Dec 2012, 09:37
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
revolution wrote:
The physical processes are the same. Locks and guards etc. to keep people controlled in one place.

No, to keep people (children and staff) safe during school time, and then when this time's up they're free to leave.
And when they're home they can defend themselves using their legally-owned weapons and they don't have to worry about irresponsible authorities punishing them as criminals if they kill an intruder.
Same thing when they're out in public places and they're faced by an attacker.

That's pretty much how we used to live for thousands of years when clans and tribes defended themselves from hostile clans and tribes or wild animals. In many ways things haven't changed that much since.
Don't get me wrong, I'm the last person you'll find defending isolationism; I just think savages and wild animals have been replaced by the criminally insane and social deviants. Perhaps it's the price to pay for modernity. Or maybe we're only now noticing how messed up some of us always were.

revolution wrote:
I think the wrong "solution" is moar weapons

Agreed, Americans don't need more weapons because 270 millions is already more than enough. The only problem is that legal owners are not allowed to carry them in certain areas and these areas logically become the target of choice for criminals and deranged people.

revolution wrote:
The locked up and controlled children of today become familiar with the environment of authority's iron fist control and a significant proportion of the future adults of tomorrow feel a need to push back with moar weapons and less respect for others.

That's ridiculous. Most kids have gone to schools with strict discipline and have experienced the legitimate authority present in any organization.
Hell, many have even been victims of bullying at school and abuse at home. But only a very tiny minority ends up shooting into a crowd, abusing kids, blowing themselves up, etc.

Respect doesn't stop bullets. You're not going to reason with a deranged mind. Logic and rational arguments don't work. At all. Ever.
Firearms allow you to exploit emotions and conservation instincts instead. Common criminals will be less inclined to commit their crimes when they know someone might show up with a gun, or even better, don't even know whether a person (or more) is armed.
As for the insane, if authorities don't want to be responsible and lock them up, then only one thing can eliminate the danger they pose: a well-placed piece of lead.
Post 21 Dec 2012, 11:36
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17270
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revolution
ManOfSteel wrote:
As for the insane, if authorities don't want to be responsible and lock them up, then only one thing can eliminate the danger they pose: a well-placed piece of lead.
That is kind of my point. In general less respect is shown towards others and then things happen (like killing people deemed unworthy to live). Whether that killing is done by the "authority" or some loner doesn't make a difference really. But is does show just how much respect the society has for others. There are countries that don't have such problems, yet. But they will probably get there also, eventually. The slippery slope seems to always point downwards as the population grows, and tensions increase.
Post 21 Dec 2012, 11:57
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
revolution wrote:
That is kind of my point. In general less respect is shown towards others and then things happen (like killing people deemed unworthy to live).

This has *always* been the case. We are social animals. Our society has laws, contracts, that make it work properly. Deviants who violate them become pariahs and are, one way or another, excluded from it, removed so they can't harm the rest. Where are you living? Lalaland?

Maybe you want me to... respect the Lanzas or Breiviks of society, or respect the "right to live" they took away from their victims? You don't want me to love them and turn the other cheek, don't you?

revolution wrote:
Whether that killing is done by the "authority" or some loner doesn't make a difference really. But is does show just how much respect the society has for others.

Self-defense is very different from post-trial execution. I'm not much of a fan of capital punishment myself. Locking up the deranged and letting people defend themselves is what I want.

revolution wrote:
There are countries that don't have such problems, yet. But they will probably get there also, eventually. The slippery slope seems to always point downwards as the population grows, and tensions increase.

There are no such places. Somewhere, at some time, someone deranged will commit a crime. Society's role is to lower the chances this happens by being proactive and locking up deranged people.
And to be sure victims are kept to a minimum (if all else fails), society gives as many of its members as possible the means to defend themselves.
Post 21 Dec 2012, 12:45
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
ManOfSteel wrote:

Respect doesn't stop bullets. You're not going to reason with a deranged mind. Logic and rational arguments don't work. At all. Ever.

it is so true.

people seems more insane as time goes by, more bizarre

whats wrong with people?

people stop thinking,

government make more legislation, screw people life more and more, follow the guidelines, stop question,

but a peaceful solution or system must be something that expand from core values, truth, humanity and justice.

now legislation become a tool above everything to hijack everything,

snowball rolling down faster than ever,

how is politic different from religion? no different, one is single person prophet start the whole bullshit, another is a bunch of prophets



solution, maybe impossible,
how to assemble a program and expect it to function without writing a single source code?

people don,t want to think, they are brain dead.
Post 21 Dec 2012, 13:37
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
ManOfSteel wrote:

Respect doesn't stop bullets. You're not going to reason with a deranged mind. Logic and rational arguments don't work. At all. Ever.

it is so true.

people seems more insane as time goes by, more bizarre

whats wrong with people?
I believe that one of the major causes is POLLUTION. Read the following articles:

Study links lead exposure to violent crimes
http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2012/04/12/3475505.htm

Lead poisoning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

Wink
Post 22 Dec 2012, 05:03
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
Another shooting.... :/
Post 22 Dec 2012, 06:41
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
Post 22 Dec 2012, 06:53
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
YONG wrote:
sleepsleep wrote:
ManOfSteel wrote:

Respect doesn't stop bullets. You're not going to reason with a deranged mind. Logic and rational arguments don't work. At all. Ever.

it is so true.

people seems more insane as time goes by, more bizarre

whats wrong with people?
I believe that one of the major causes is POLLUTION. Read the following articles:

Study links lead exposure to violent crimes
http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2012/04/12/3475505.htm

Lead poisoning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning

Wink


it is possible,
people don,t seem to care where their rubbish end up after they throw them away,
and they keep on producing more rubbish, buy more things, throw more things,

those in power don,t want to build things that could last forever,
keep on breaking equal to more sales, more profit, more $
one parent company established several sub companies with several competitive brands using same technology.

there is simply no efficiency in current system.

after all, human is so fucked up.
Post 22 Dec 2012, 10:42
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1409
Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
I was thinking about the recent school shooting and I had a weird idea.
What if gun manufacturers were to implant into a gun the wireless device, connected
to the trigger, so gun can be disabled by a jamming signal.
Like a car, which will not start without a key, even if it is wired to start.
Public places, like schools, will have the jammer always on and working, so
if anyone enters the premises - the gun simply will not shoot.

However, there are few questionable things:

- when selling guns, who gets a jammer (soccer mom) and who is not (a PI)?
- hacking a gun, possible?..
- how to DEFEND if the life in danger and you're on premises which are jammed?
Post 25 Dec 2012, 17:10
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DOS386



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 1901
DOS386
> a weird idea

won't work

> hacking a gun, possible?..

extremely easy
Post 26 Dec 2012, 07:56
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
Indeed it won't work.

First, guns are relatively simple mechanical devices. Any gun owner can take his guns apart and nothing prevents him from removing the "jamming device receptors".

Second, people won't accept to own a gun that works this way (and may not work properly because of it). What if the guns jams (pun intended) more often? Also what to do with the existing hundreds of millions (possibly as much as 2 billions) of guns all over the world?

Third, you still have the exact same problem that locations equipped with "gun jammers" will be soft spots that criminals target more often.

Fourth, you still have the exact same problem you have with "legal" VS "illegal" weapons. The 99.99% of law-abiding citizens will have legally-owned "jammed guns" while the 0.01% of spree killers will use "cracked guns" or guns that were never converted.

So, back to square one.
Post 26 Dec 2012, 13:14
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17270
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revolution
ManOfSteel wrote:
Second, people won't accept to own a gun that works this way (and may not work properly because of it).
Jammer circuits for guns == DRM for software.

Many people have accepted DRM so perhaps they will also accept jammers for guns? To "protect" us of course. Wink
Post 26 Dec 2012, 13:42
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
Only one problem. People don't care about software (only that some IT tech installed it on their PC and it works) and the enforcement of copyrights (or lack of it). Most don't *really* understand a thing about computers. Most don't even know what DRM is.

Gun owners on the other hand care about their guns A LOT. The law that would impose such system on gun manufacturers would never pass. And if it ever passed, thousands of angry and heavily armed people would be marching on D.C.
Post 26 Dec 2012, 14:02
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
ManOfSteel wrote:
Only one problem. People don't care about software (only that some IT tech installed it on their PC and it works) and the enforcement of copyrights (or lack of it). Most don't *really* understand a thing about computers. Most don't even know what DRM is.

Gun owners on the other hand care about their guns A LOT. The law that would impose such system on gun manufacturers would never pass. And if it ever passed, thousands of angry and heavily armed people would be marching on D.C.


"1 million angry-armed man march"

Where would the evil CIA and USMC be at at this time?

Damn right you already know.
Post 27 Dec 2012, 05:31
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