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kalambong



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 165
kalambong
... then atheism is also evil

A lot of people when they mention "religion" they think of "Islam" or "Christianity" or "Judaism" or "Hinduism" or "Buddhism", but they forgot that the term "religion" does not denote a believe in "GOD"

Religion actually means a deep belief - and that if you deeply believe that there is NO GOD, you are as religious as those who believe that there is one (or more than one) God

And since we are all programmers here, it's safe to say that even inside the programming circles we have different "computer language religion" - some will sing hosannah over the virtue of "C", and then there are others who will have nothing to do with any high level languages and swear to the efficiency of assembly language

That too, can be considered as "religion"

Same thing applies to economy - There are those who will do anything to promote their deep believe that Keynesian Economy Theory trumps the rest and argue vehemently that all other economic thoughts are rubbish. They too, are religious, because they worship the teachings from John Maynard Keynes.

So ... are religion evil ?

If so, human thoughts are evil as well - because each and every one of us has deep believe in something
Post 16 Sep 2012, 00:02
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
I deeply believe that chocolate is yummy. Everyone come join me in the chocolate revolution.
Post 16 Sep 2012, 00:38
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
But seriously speaking, I think is doesn't make sense to claim that absence of belief is a religion. Lack of belief in god would be just the same a lack of belief in pink unicorns and lack of belief in aliens from outer space. And any of an uncountable number of other lack-of-belief-in things.

You have to believe in the existence of something, not the lack of existence in something. Someone can believe in something like the big-bang, and perhaps could also be said to be a religious follower of the big-bang theory - I suppose. But to say that people that don't believe in the big-bang is a religion - that is a huge stretch.
Post 16 Sep 2012, 01:24
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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JohnFound
Atheism is not a "belief". Atheism claims that existence of something must be proved.
Every atheist is ready to acknowledge the existence of any god, after trustworthy proofs.
It is common mistake of the west people to think atheism is some kind of religion. Or maybe it is part of anti-atheist propaganda.
Post 16 Sep 2012, 05:18
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kalambong



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 165
kalambong
If I claim something, I better believe it or I will be lying

If I claim that I saw a UFO, I better really believe that I did see a UFO, or sooner or later someone gonna find out that I'm a liar

If I claim that there is ***ABSOLUTELY NO GOD***, and I can go on and on telling you why there is no god, that proves one thing --- that my belief system is centered on the principle of *GOD IS NON-EXISTENCE*
Post 16 Sep 2012, 08:12
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kalambong



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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kalambong
revolution wrote:
But seriously speaking, I think is doesn't make sense to claim that absence of belief is a religion. Lack of belief in god would be just the same a lack of belief in pink unicorns and lack of belief in aliens from outer space. And any of an uncountable number of other lack-of-belief-in things.

You have to believe in the existence of something, not the lack of existence in something. Someone can believe in something like the big-bang, and perhaps could also be said to be a religious follower of the big-bang theory - I suppose. But to say that people that don't believe in the big-bang is a religion - that is a huge stretch.


A lack of belief in something does not equal to a belief in the absence of that same thing

There are people who do not believe in God. But that doesn't mean that they really believe that God is non-existent.

But then, there are those who can go on stage and yell out "THERE IS NO GOD !!!"

Atheism reflects the latter group

As for the former, they are agnostics, not atheists
Post 16 Sep 2012, 08:15
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
kalambong wrote:

So ... are religion evil ?

If so, human thoughts are evil as well - because each and every one of us has deep believe in something

so is deep believe in something = religion?

i would say, deep believe in something is certainly one part of religion, but religion encompass more than just "deep believe".

i don't think people who believe in god or no god is big problem,
but i think people who cannot accept things, stuffs that could alter their belief (even you provide them proof) to be big problem.

it is big problem when people (close minded) cannot use their sane mind to think, consider, deduce to a conclusion.

eg,
a person ask what the difference between stdcall and cdecl call, you give him an example, the idea of difference, but he still claim BOTH are same, no difference.

this type of person is like those religion believer, they could no longer accept anything (even if prove by science) that different from what their book said, what their prophet said.

and this is the greatest problem.

and religion is EVIL, because religion output such people.
Post 16 Sep 2012, 11:00
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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ManOfSteel
kalambong wrote:
If you say religion is evil ...
... then atheism is also evil

Only problem, most atheists don't even believe in the "Good versus Evil" dichotomy. They know there are many shades of gray and nothing is set in stone or dictated by some scriptures.

You're probably talking about humanist moralists who believe, naively, that some people do "bad" things in the name of religion and are therefore "evil" and their religion is "evil".
Atheists and any intelligent person who knows anything about Human society will know that religions are man-made, that they (like any other doctrine) may be used by some people to manipulate others and further their own interests and control over resources, that this has been going on for ages and that there's nothing evil with it, just machiavellian.

kalambong wrote:
if you deeply believe that there is NO GOD, you are as religious as those who believe that there is one (or more than one) God

To most atheists, atheism is not the belief in the absence of God/gods, but the absence of belief in (or even the impossibility of) God or any spiritual, supernatural, incorporeal, entity.

While religion is the unfounded belief that the spirit creates matter, atheism is a set of ideas based on scientific and empirical facts proving that non-material phenomena are the result of the material world and not the other way around.
For instance, there's no proof whatsoever that there's a human "soul" that is independent of the body. On the other hand there are centuries of scientific knowledge that prove that whatever spirit/soul/mind there is in the human body, is born with it and dies with it.

To take an example of yours, Keynesian macroeconomics don't exist because Keynes pulled some idea out of thin air and then applied it to the economy. They exist because in the very real material world, there are some cases where the Invisible Hand suffers from Parkinson. Observations are made and plans are devised that aim to change the course of events in the material world.

And finally, before you start talking about the "Science religion" oxymoron, for atheists science is not immutable: it's constantly negating itself as scientific knowledge constantly grows.

kalambong wrote:
And since we are all programmers here, it's safe to say that even inside the programming circles we have different "computer language religion" - some will sing hosannah over the virtue of "C" [...]

Now that's just ridiculous. It's all about choice based on preference. It's like saying there's a blond religion, redhead religion, green-eyed religion, etc.
Post 16 Sep 2012, 12:46
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typedef



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typedef
revolution wrote:
I deeply believe that chocolate is yummy. Everyone come join me in the chocolate revolution.


Ahh, Yes. Very Happy I'm complete !
Post 16 Sep 2012, 15:47
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
chocolate is yummy, of course, but is bad for teeth too, then, it can give as mush injury that it gives pleasure.

then, god is evil?
evil is god too?

religion is evil, no religion is god, religion is no religion...
decidelly, with god, everything is everything... logic, god is everything, and is a dangerous shortcut to the real knowledge. condider people that claim they know everything cause they know the god's (or science) pamphlets. tro lo lo lo lo
Post 17 Sep 2012, 21:21
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
edfed wrote:
then, god is evil?
evil is god too?
One is zero; zero is one. The end is the beginning; the beginning is ... the beginning! Wink
Post 18 Sep 2012, 05:29
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
ManOfSteel wrote:
To most atheists, atheism is not the belief in the absence of God/gods, but the absence of belief in (or even the impossibility of) God or any spiritual, supernatural, incorporeal, entity.

While religion is the unfounded belief that the spirit creates matter, atheism is a set of ideas based on scientific and empirical facts proving that non-material phenomena are the result of the material world and not the other way around.
Well said, bro! Wink
Post 18 Sep 2012, 05:30
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Masood.Sandking



Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 65
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Masood.Sandking
In Persian language, Religion comes from a word that means:
1) Thinking and Knowing
2) Conscience
Our teacher said that Religion is just a Life Program...
There is different Life Programs, some of them are regardless of God...

[sorry for english grammer!]
Post 07 Oct 2012, 19:40
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OzzY



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
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OzzY
I can't prove that there's/there isn't a God, the Creator.

But religions are all man made. There's no true religion. Men created this bullshit to manipulate others. Why all religions require your money or you to give HIGH STATUS to a man made of flesh just like you and me?

Another bullshit is that humans are made in God image. Whoever wrote that is very egocentric to think humans are worth anything in the universe. If Earth exploded the universe just keeps going. Eventually the Sun will die, you know?

But if there's a creator, then who created the creator? If he can create himself then the universe can create itself too.

And, yes. Religion is evil because only religion makes people kill in the name of something invisible.

It also impacts science evolution with its dogmas. Innocent people were burned alive with religions hallucinations about demons and witches.

I'd prefer if everybody just got a high level of education and regards to other humans, animals and plants.

Imagine if aliens visited us. We would immediately kill them claiming they're demons. What intelligent race would want to visit this ignorant human race? Seriously.
Post 13 Nov 2012, 01:07
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
OzzY wrote:

Imagine if aliens visited us. We would immediately kill them claiming they're demons. What intelligent race would want to visit this ignorant human race? Seriously.

they only fly their UFO crafts nearby us, scare hell to land on earth! Laughing
Post 13 Nov 2012, 03:15
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
Say NO to all religious beliefs. PERIOD. Wink
Post 13 Nov 2012, 06:02
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
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tom tobias
Masood.Sandking wrote:
In Persian language, Religion comes from a word that means:
1) Thinking and Knowing
2) Conscience
Our teacher said that Religion is just a Life Program...
There is different Life Programs, some of them are regardless of God...

I share Yong's acknowledgement of ManOfSteel's excellent rejoinder, that atheism (a meaning without, and theism meaning religious practices or beliefs) connotes non-belief in supernatural phenomena--not gods per se. In ancient times, superstition provided the only suitable explanation for questions addressing the mystery of life and death.

My question to the forum relates to this Persian concept (Thanks Masood), associating thinking with religion. Thinking of course, represents the practice of negating the obvious, while religion, contrarily demands obedience to the banal, the obvious, the "authority".

We tend to forget that both Judaism and Christianity were influenced by Zoroastrianism, which originated in either India, Afghanistan, or Persia, depending on whose account we read.

I wondered, as I read Masood's comment, whether he had been referring to the wisdom of the ancient Zoroastrians, or, if, alternatively, he had been thinking of Islam, the latter, in my opinion, simply a retread of Judaism.

Often overlooked in the discussions of various religions, is the attempt by certain, well educated, ancient Greeks to provide thoughtful answers to questions, which, in their day, were attributed, by ordinary folks, to "Gods" living on Mount Olympus:

Eratosthenes, who first computed the circumference of Earth, using just two pieces of wood;

Aristarchus, another of the chief librarians in Alexandria, Egypt, who first computed the distance from Earth to the Sun, and first proposed heliocentrism.

Those two mathematicians were living in a world dominated by superstitious thinking: Even Aristotle and Plato, for example, accepted the false notion of geocentrism. Makes one wonder, doesn't it, what kind of documents were housed in that famous library, and from where, did those ancient scrolls originate? Of course, we all know that Alexander's army, before heading East, ultimately reaching Afghanistan and India, commenced its journey of death and destruction in Egypt, where the 20 year old General was hailed as messiah, for liberating Egypt from the Persians. Hmm. How many of those documents in the library at Alexandria, came from Persia?

Ancient Persia was a place of considerable respect for technology, art, music, and culture, as suggested by Masood's contribution. Here's wishing we could learn more about that ancient civilization.

Smile
Post 13 Nov 2012, 10:37
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Overflowz



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
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Overflowz
IMO religion is for controlling people and some of them to make human not like to be a beast.
Post 13 Nov 2012, 13:07
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mmix



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mmix
Post 16 Nov 2012, 14:07
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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rugxulo
I've had an e-mail draft (and handwritten note) sitting around for a month or two once I finally (slightly late) saw all these anti-religion threads. It's just too frustrating to know how to adequately and delicately say things, esp. for such a controversial topic. I'll try to be brief and fair. (Don't worry, this is no flame, only a meek defense.)

OzzY wrote:
I can't prove that there's/there isn't a God, the Creator.

But religions are all man made. There's no true religion.


Judaism and Christianity disagree. There is only one God. And the latter explicitly says, "No one comes to the Father except through me."

Quote:

Men created this bullshit to manipulate others. Why all religions require your money or you to give HIGH STATUS to a man made of flesh just like you and me?


Then why does it say, "Do not steal?" Sure, churches need money to do their works, but it's not asking for all of it, just a small tithe. "HIGH STATUS" ... you mean office? "Angel is the office, spirit is the nature." So it's just a job. Hey, somebody's got to do it. Wink

Another thing is that everybody has some authority over them (turtles all the way up? heheh). We all have to (at some time) respect some authority, e.g. parents, government leaders, religious, etc. Not all know what they're talking about, but in order to not destroy ourselves and others, we are obliged to follow the truth and obey and serve it (and only it).

Quote:

Another bullshit is that humans are made in God image. Whoever wrote that is very egocentric to think humans are worth anything in the universe. If Earth exploded the universe just keeps going. Eventually the Sun will die, you know?


Man was created in God's image but fell due to original sin. It heavily corrupted all of us. Yes, we still have dignity and freedom, but our minds and senses (intellect and will) are clouded due to prevalence to sin. We must fight against our own selfish needs and follow the path of God instead (i.e. keep the ten commandments ... I know I'm not going to convince everyone here with that, but that is the idea: love God [1-3] and neighbor as yourself [4-10]).

And BTW, God explicitly said, (cf. Isaiah) "My thoughts are not your thoughts and My ways not your ways. As far as the heavens are from the Earth, that's how high above you I am".

Quote:

But if there's a creator, then who created the creator? If he can create himself then the universe can create itself too.


No, God is, by definition, eternal, i.e. always existing.

Quote:

And, yes. Religion is evil because only religion makes people kill in the name of something invisible.


Do not kill, do not try to kill, do not want to kill, do not hold grudges. The ten commandments make this very clear. Love your neighbor as yourself, not as a foreign slave, not as a sinner, not as inferior, but as equal to yourself in dignity and as the good (but slightly corrupted) creation of God that He loves. God loves His creation like a good husband loves his wife.

Quote:

It also impacts science evolution with its dogmas. Innocent people were burned alive with religions hallucinations about demons and witches.


People sin, big surprise. God knows this, religion is all about this. It's a sweeping generalization to imply that religion causes it or its followers are all murderers. Sure, some people have blame (guilt), but it belongs to them and no one else.

To be fair, it's not like non-religious never kill people either. Satan was a murderer from the start by his acts. Cain killed Abel unrighteously. Etc. etc. Bad things happen. Nobody is perfect due to the fall.

If you don't like murder (wisely!), don't do it. But let's be fair, the ten commandments agree with that!

Quote:

I'd prefer if everybody just got a high level of education and regards to other humans, animals and plants.

Imagine if aliens visited us. We would immediately kill them claiming they're demons. What intelligent race would want to visit this ignorant human race? Seriously.


A demon is not a foreign entity, it is anyone who willingly and knowingly refuses to serve God in His goodness and willingly rejects God's commandments (with full knowledge and full consent), one who refuses to repent and wishes for destruction of God's creation. No man living is fully evil, thus why we must forgive and love our neighbors.

The whole point of me responding here (finally) was to mainly just say one thing. If Christianity is evil, then why does it say, "Love your enemies: do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." (Luke 6) ??? Man is not the enemy. God is not the enemy. Religions are not the enemy. The true enemy ("satan" in Hebrew) is the one who intentionally defies God totally and irrevocably. God is on your side, so are His people, they all keep the commandments (and God by default since it's in His perfect nature).

P.S. I'm not looking to argue endlessly. I can't even promise I'll read this thread again. Just wanted to clarify, Christians are not allowed to kill anybody, we must forgive and love everyone as ourselves. We are not better than anyone else (in nature nor deed) as that is not the point. (Pride is a sin. Humility is a virtue.) The point is to imitate God and love His creation, not destroy it. (But admittedly, sometimes a little knowledge and correction are necessary.)
Post 25 Nov 2012, 02:45
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