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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17278
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
typedef wrote:
What desktop OS doesn't let you have full control?
Win 7 (and I assume later 8, 8.1 and 10) don't allow the user to change the MAC address to all values. The user also cannot send arbitrary data to the network interfaces. These are two restrictions I've encountered that are annoying.

And I read that the Home version of Win 10 forces the user to have updates installed, with no way to disable it.
Post 05 Aug 2015, 02:55
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Eduardo



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 23
Eduardo
typedef wrote:
Lol. Lots of those have nothing to do with any OS. It's what you give it. Any system having a startup list is bound to slow down if the list gets too big or there's a program that hogs time.

The things I mentioned are very connected to my experience with linux, even if not depend solely on it. As for startup lists, sir typedef, all my syslinux does is display a text file with 10 lines on the screen and wait I type a word or press enter.

typedef wrote:
I think you just don't know how to tune and organize your computer.

You're right. I really don't know well how to tune up my computer, and then i do many experiences. But the system is very well organized! Just isn't FHS compilant! Very Happy

typedef wrote:
*Facepalm* So windows just crashes when it decides?

Laughing Oh hell yes! You got it! At least that's the impression I got these last eight years.

typedef wrote:
Seriously, What world do you live in? Have you actually used Windows before?

I was programming in a windows 7 64-bit machine while typing this,
When I started using linux, I find it easier to learn to use it than I did with windows. Still use both, windows more than linux, but really learned more about Linux. That's why I said what I said, I thought this characteristic of my experience had been clear in the text.

typedef wrote:
jajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja.

We're not interacting at the same level of respect, are we?

typedef wrote:
Hahahaha. Ok. What desktop OS doesn't let you have full control?

ok, I just used my words in a confused way. when I use windows, I feel myself in a constant limiting experience. Linux also makes me do certain things in a limiting way, but I can at least mitigate better the situation. And revolution appointments are correct
Post 05 Aug 2015, 04:52
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
Location: 0x77760000
typedef
revolution wrote:
typedef wrote:
What desktop OS doesn't let you have full control?
Win 7 (and I assume later 8, 8.1 and 10) don't allow the user to change the MAC address to all values. The user also cannot send arbitrary data to the network interfaces. These are two restrictions I've encountered that are annoying.

And I read that the Home version of Win 10 forces the user to have updates installed, with no way to disable it.


What are you talking about? I can change my MAC from my adapter's properties.

Also, you can use tools to do that. Other external adapters will actually have property sheets that let you change said stuff.
Post 05 Aug 2015, 05:16
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17278
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
typedef wrote:
What are you talking about? I can change my MAC from my adapter's properties.

Also, you can use tools to do that. Other external adapters will actually have property sheets that let you change said stuff.
My Win7 laptop has no such option. And using a mac changer app has no effect unless the locally managed bit is set which restricts the range of macs I can use. Essentially it is useless for my purpose because I can't clone the required mac address when testing.
Post 05 Aug 2015, 05:30
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
revolution wrote:
typedef wrote:
What are you talking about? I can change my MAC from my adapter's properties.

Also, you can use tools to do that. Other external adapters will actually have property sheets that let you change said stuff.
My Win7 laptop has no such option. And using a mac changer app has no effect unless the locally managed bit is set which restricts the range of macs I can use. Essentially it is useless for my purpose because I can't clone the required mac address when testing.

Maybe you are just afraid of messing up your system. Are you the mod/hacker type?
Post 05 Aug 2015, 06:30
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17278
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
typedef wrote:
Maybe you are just afraid of messing up your system. Are you the mod/hacker type?
With my WinXP system I can do this with no problem. Changing a MAC address is just editing a registry entry and restarting the network driver. Win7 blocks this unless the LA bit is set, the driver simply ignores the new setting and the MAC is unchanged on the outgoing port.

So do you think that it is my fault that the MAC won't change? If so I would like to learn how to correct it and get it working. Thanks for your assistance in this matter.
Post 05 Aug 2015, 08:18
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Foxxy



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 42
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Foxxy
I recently changed the MAC addresses on all of my network adapters because the router was giving me trouble. It was extremely easy to change, put a MAC address in a box and hit "apply". This was without an application dedicated to this purpose.

@Eduardo:
I don't know where all of your Windows crashes are coming from... in my 17 years of using Windows I have never had it ONCE crash on me.

Also, Linux does have a lot of modability compared to Windows, but I do not feel as though it is worth the annoyance in the long run. I am happy with Windows because it never breaks in some obscure fashion and all of my software works the first time I install it. I am glad you enjoy modding Linux as a hobby, but I still fail to see why I should swap.

I suppose my views of Linux have been tainted by a lot of bad experiences.

@revolution:
Have you gone to device manager? That's where I change all of my MAC addresses.
Post 05 Aug 2015, 16:41
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PeExecutable



Joined: 26 Jun 2015
Posts: 181
PeExecutable
Eduardo wrote:
I only use Gnu/Linux (i'll call it just linux now) in my personal computers.
Linux isn't the ideal, but I prefer it because:

1 - its libre (free as in "free speech")
2 - i cannot use the WinAPI, my head hurts just by remembering it exists.
i prefer to memorize linux syscalls. Isn't the ideal, but hurts less
3 - im always modifying or reading the sources of the softwares i use, including the kernel. I read a lot of software. Sometimes i make little mods. Sometimes i end with completely rewriten files.
5 - I have a desperate need of knowing what is my computer doing with the costly electricity that i paid, and linux its kinda transparent by nature
6 - dont like to use the mouse so much, i prefer tons of tabs in lxterminal, just work
7 - linux loves me, and my hardware Smile
8 - linux memory management beats windows attempt by far!
9 - I use my RAM as a temporary file storage area. my system never write a temp file to the harddisk, never!!
10 - i dont use grub, i use a simple syslinux menu with 6 or more recompiled kernel and run freedos options.
11 - my computer's complete booting process time, from bios post to compiz fusion varies between 9 and 15 seconds. All services running, and fully ready to work hard for the whole day.
12 - I only experience crashes when my hardware have a problem.
13 - when you put a pendrive and windows dont say a thing, or if you have a deviant hardware, how do you do? I just type dmesg in a open term to know whats the problem.
14 - if a evil program refuse to die, i just need to type ctrl+alt+backspace, and the machine its ready again
15 - no need to reboot, never!
16 - i have a customized linux distro in my pendrive. it occupies 200 MB, with internet browser, geany, fasm, gcc, and a ton of little optimized cli tools.
17 - with linux i can get the maximum of control i can get from my machine, EVER

About point 3: If you need to change the source, the program is unfinished and shouldn't be on your harddrive to begin with. It shouldn't be necessary to change the source code, and if something should be adjusted, it should be done with the registry or ini files, because if you alter the code, you can not expect it to work, you have to debug it too, with registry or ini files you can alter the program without fear of it breaking. And if the source is released makes it easier for malicious people to study and find security flaws, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be a bad thing and sometimes having things closed up can be better.

About point 9: You can switch off and prevent windows from writing to the harddrive, so this is not a weakness it's actually an option, which is better than being forced to have it written to memory. And you can also use usb memory sticks (speedboost too) to write to memory sticks in windows. All the options are there, plus the one you seem to appreciate in linux. There is nothing that is lacking in windows in this area.

About point 13: Use mountvol on the command line. And also set up your USB in group policy, it is quite amazing how much you can twist and turn the knobs in group policy, most linux users have never heard of group policy before, it's a very fine thing in windows, check it out. There is nothing you can't do there in terms of customizing windows. Most linux users spend about 1 hour setting up windows before they give up on windows. When I set up windows (into a rock solid perfect state) I spend 4 days in group policy to get to where I want it to be, and then I backup one tiny little file to keep those settings forever.

About point 17: This is a misunderstanding, what you meant to say is that you were lucky to discover maximum control by accident, and by the same accident you missed the same opportunities in windows, because you never bothered to look.
Post 05 Aug 2015, 17:07
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
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typedef
Oh yeah. Thanks for bringing up the Group Policy Editor.

That thing works wonders when using Active Directory. Best tool for user & computer policy management.
Post 05 Aug 2015, 17:18
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Eduardo



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 23
Eduardo
Foxxy, Im glad your choices meets your expectations and needs. I don't think i need nor i can to convince anyone to use linux. And i thank all who give me helpful tips about windows or linux! Im a beginner in many ways. Smile

PeExecutable, I need to change sources by some reasons beyond "unfinished program":
- i don't agree with design phylosophy or choices of the author
- i use old version code, or reanimating abandoned projects. for example, i mantain my own variation of javascript spidermonkey, based on 1.7 version.
- i rewrite programs from one language to another. I do this also for learning or convenience. Very Happy

Your point of view is interesting about the point 9. I'll check it

I never gave up installing windows, even when it took days. in fact, I installed a copy of windows xp last week in a virtual machine, all night long... I can not have done all my installations with success, but surely never gave up. I also quite rummaged through windows administrative tools, and I know the group police editor. I did not know about mountvol, I will check this also Smile

I bothered to look so. what i saw wasn't very pretty.
Obviously I can use my computer with windows and do the same tasks I do in linux, changing some habits and reading some manuals. That isn't my point.


Last edited by Eduardo on 05 Aug 2015, 19:35; edited 1 time in total
Post 05 Aug 2015, 19:32
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
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HaHaAnonymous
Quote:

If you need to change the source, the program is unfinished and shouldn't be on your harddrive to begin with.

LOL!
Post 05 Aug 2015, 19:33
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Eduardo



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 23
Eduardo
This forum needs a a-la-facebook "like" button, HaHaAnonymous Laughing
Post 05 Aug 2015, 19:40
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PeExecutable



Joined: 26 Jun 2015
Posts: 181
PeExecutable
You can still read open source code in windows too if you like, you don't need linux for that, you can compile it in windows too. I think the main confusing point here is that windows combines the whole community of commercial/closed source software and open source all together.

I see that flaw over and over with many linux "experts" is that they tell you how much they like to look at the source code, but open source is for windows too, and here is where they are misled. You can enjoy that open source in windows, you can compile it in windows and you can run it in windows.

This debate has been going for, I don't know how many years, but learn it once and for all; Open source is for windows too, you can read open source in windows, you can alter open source in windows. That is not an exclusive feature only for linux.
Post 05 Aug 2015, 19:57
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Eduardo



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
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Eduardo
I know it, i have said this just now.
Windows isn't open. If the base isn't open, the whole system aren't
Post 05 Aug 2015, 20:11
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PeExecutable



Joined: 26 Jun 2015
Posts: 181
PeExecutable
The linux system is just a tiny part of the open source community. It's just a tiny fraction of it all, open source is still highly applicable in windows, as with linux. Anything that can be read in one can also be read in the other.

In vastly complex technical operating system definitions, not something being open is strictly a question of function, and such a complex OS as windows, only being exposed to its API layers can be complex enough to qualify as "being open". You wouldn't want to dig too much into it unless you had to, the leading experts have spent over two decades improving the NT kernel.
Post 05 Aug 2015, 20:30
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Eduardo



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
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Eduardo
I already read and write and compile code in both, it isn't a problem. I just don't trust what's behind the WinAPI.

I don't have problem with closed-source and proprietary software per se. I use some sometimes. Good software is good software, closed or open or libre.

But i don't want to stay waiting patches when my system don't behaves the way i need, i want to do them.
Post 05 Aug 2015, 23:47
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17278
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Foxxy wrote:
Have you gone to device manager? That's where I change all of my MAC addresses.
I can't tell our customers to go digging into their OS and start changing settings and whatnot. That is not a suitable solution. For my own machine I could boot into debug mode and run unsigned drivers and whatnot but I can't offer that method to a client. What I see is that without the LA bit set the Win7 drivers refuse to use the requested MAC address and default to the one burned into the adapter. The code I have works fine for changing the MAC when the LA bit is set so AFAICT everything is fine on my end.
Post 06 Aug 2015, 01:31
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
just one question, is MAC address something by common is changeable by users?

assume your router is set up to filter by MAC and by common, you don' want user having the ability to change their MAC.

Quote:
A media access control address (MAC address) is a unique identifier assigned to network interfaces for communications on the physical network segment. MAC addresses are used as a network address for most IEEE 802 network technologies, including Ethernet and WiFi.
Post 06 Aug 2015, 14:31
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Eduardo wrote:

I installed a copy of windows xp last week in a virtual machine, all night long... I can not have done all my installations with success, but surely never gave up.

it will takes less than 15 minutes to have a complete xp sp3 inside virtualbox, more faster if you mount vdi on memory.

if you use post xp sp3 with nlite to update the iso, you can get up to date xp after installation.

am just really curious how you stuck with this all night long.....

here the step by step,
http://www.blackviper.com/os-install-guides/windows-xp-professional-install-guide/
Post 06 Aug 2015, 14:37
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17278
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
sleepsleep: MAC addresses are local to the immediate network only. They only have to be unique in a local sense. MAC addresses don't cross a gateway.

But changing them is common and necessary in many circumstances. It should never be the sole domain of the equipment maker to determine the MAC address. At the most it can be the default with provision to override when required.

Many routers have a configuration screen to clone the MAC of the host and/or the network. Some ISP demand that this is done in their terms of service.
Post 06 Aug 2015, 14:39
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