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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
I found this interesting phenomena will observing Linux users, at least my friends and Linux users I met on online forums.

Some of them likes to bring the "Linux on the desktop is stuck at 1% market share" topic in any ocassions. I'm not really sure about the statistics. I guess that's not try anymore, but let's assume that's still true.

So, being 1% of the desktop users market, these Linux users believe they are smarter, technical, intelligent than the majority OS users (obiously Windows). Windows are so mainstream. Everybody can use it. Linux, on the other hand, required some knowledges, skills, reading manuals, compiling from sources, etc. That means if you're a Linux user, you must be smart, or at least better than the average Windows user.

Honestly I don't get the idea. Indeed there are certains areas where Linux is better than Windows, server & embedded system, for example. But what to proud of being "1%"?. If Linux users, which are 1%, are considered smart, then smaller OS users (< 1%) like Menuet or Kolibri then should be considered supreme-being or genius. Am I right? Laughing

I use Linux because I want to get the work done, not for being among the 1%.
Post 13 Aug 2012, 15:11
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
TmX wrote:
Some of them likes to bring the "Linux on the desktop is stuck at 1% market share" topic in any ocassions.

There's no way to really know:
- ISO download statistics are meaningless as many people copy CDs and share ISOs on Torrent and P2P
- OS fingerprinting is not accurate as it can be faked/masked
- Usage statistics applications require that users install them on their machines and many people don't.
...

TmX wrote:
these Linux users believe they are smarter, technical, intelligent than the majority OS users (obiously Windows). Windows are so mainstream. Everybody can use it. Linux, on the other hand, required some knowledges, skills, reading manuals, compiling from sources, etc. That means if you're a Linux user, you must be smart, or at least better than the average Windows user.

Well there's some truth in that, but it's becoming less relevant with time because most "mainstream" distros are practically becoming *nix-for-dummies/Windows-Lite with users not even knowing what a shell is.
It is definitely true for other systems - such as *BSD - though. Many people can't even follow the relatively easy installation process so most computer illiterates are weeded out right there. And then, many first contact shock survivors can't be bothered to configure a desktop from scratch so they're eliminated within days.

TmX wrote:
But what to proud of being "1%"

That's the definition of being 1337 Razz Hahaha

TmX wrote:
then smaller OS users (< 1%) like Menuet or Kolibri then should be considered supreme-being or genius. Am I right? Laughing

Maybe...

TmX wrote:
I use Linux because I want to get the work done, not for being among the 1%.

I believe it's the same for these people and they're just pretending to care about that 1% thing.
Or these are part of the lot who are jerks and not really that bright.
Post 13 Aug 2012, 17:18
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
it is good to get into that 1% because the rest 99% are ......, they will keep on making love and having babies :p

TmX wrote:

Linux on the desktop is stuck at 1% market share

imo, because it requires more "know how" in order to operate the OS comfortably,
99% are those who only want to learn what, not how and why..

TmX wrote:

If Linux users, which are 1%, are considered smart, then smaller OS users (< 1%) like Menuet or Kolibri then should be considered supreme-being or genius. Am I right?

yeah, i think you are correct, like those who program in assembly language, Very Happy
Post 13 Aug 2012, 20:18
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f0dder



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 3170
Location: Denmark
f0dder
TmX wrote:
I use Linux because I want to get the work done, not for being among the 1%.
And that's the only valid reason to do it - anything else is lame hipsterfag superiority complex mentality.

_________________
Image - carpe noctem
Post 14 Aug 2012, 09:40
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
i got to bring this topic up becoz revolution and others still stuck in old unupdated holes windows.

windows makes tasks easier to perform, i mean, to do the same task in linux, one really need to google, creative thinking on what possibly the command would be named, and what one should do before doing this and maybe lots of reading.

windows makes things more user friendly through common sense, they hide away variables that one could change, and limit tasks to very basic input and others using ms predefined values.

the steps idea in windows is a big plus, first do this, second that and third you are done.

linux tend to let users control and manage through cli, script, or windows through powershell or cmd.exe

using os is like driving car, nothing superior, a linux or windows car will get you to destination,

it is when the car broke down, you know what to repair, how to repair, and etc other skills that add intoe superiority values, imo.
Post 01 Aug 2015, 17:35
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1180
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HaHaAnonymous
Quote:

windows makes tasks easier to perform, i mean, to do the same task in linux, one really need to google,

You do not need to "google" if you already know or have read "The Manual™".

Quote:

creative thinking on what possibly the command would be named, and what one should do before doing this and maybe lots of reading.

Reading is an essential ability, you are lost without it.

Quote:

windows makes things more user friendly through common sense

But most of the times it is not common sense. See Windows 10...

Quote:

and limit tasks to very basic input and others using ms predefined values.

The same could be done on Linux. But what is the point!? Linux is not Windows.

Quote:

the steps idea in windows is a big plus, first do this, second that and third you are done.

The same could be done on Linux. But what is the point!? Linux is not Windows.

Quote:

using os is like driving car, nothing superior, a linux or windows car will get you to destination,

Linux (the kernel) would be like a high performance engine, and you could fit it in virtually anything. Windows is a car already built from factory and you cannot see what is inside or customize the way you would want it, you are locked. You cannot open the hood or drive it yourself, or warranty void. Microsoft is the driver and sometimes you cannot even choose the destination.

LOL!
Post 02 Aug 2015, 02:55
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

You do not need to "google" if you already know or have read "The Manual™".

yah, lots of utils, and lots of man, no really sure how one could go through them without google.

Quote:

Reading is an essential ability, you are lost without it.

i agree, read google results. =)

Quote:

But most of the times it is not common sense. See Windows 10...

windows 10 is ok, would be nice if you could point out the part which is not common sense.

i am aware linux aint windows.
but i am very sure there are points, good points, good ui, good concept, good idea inside windows that worth praise.
Post 02 Aug 2015, 19:32
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1180
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HaHaAnonymous
sleepsleep, if you analyze carefully you will know there are more "cons" on using Windows than "pros".

Most people talk bad about Linux without even knowing it... Try telling a common Windows user to switch to Linux or what he/she thinks about it... If you mention Linux to them, you are going to hear a lot of negative jokes.

But really, most of them never touched on Linux in their lives. They are cursing the unknown.

I used to be one of those people, for me it was like: "Windows or nothing. The rest is garbage".

But after I understood how it worked, its benefits, it became my favorite platform to get the job done... I now see it as a good thing.

I cannot seeing myself going back to Windows because all the things I did there I can do better now. Of course, I am still forced to use Windows for a few things (internet banking, work, school, some games, keeping updated...).
Post 02 Aug 2015, 20:37
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
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typedef
Windows is for when you want to get stuff done quick. Drag and drop and the use of the mouse. Windows can do what Linux does too. You can manipulate files, edit the registry, manage processes and other stuff you'd normally find within their GUI counterparts, all from the command line.

It's meant to be easy for use by common folks. Also, it's proprietary so don't expect it to be the same as other open source OSes.

And what are the cons that you speak of? When you are done listing them check the scoreboard. Numbers don't lie.
Post 03 Aug 2015, 03:06
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Trinitek



Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 257
Trinitek
HaHaAnonymous wrote:
I cannot seeing myself going back to Windows because all the things I did there I can do better now.

What do you mean "better"? Faster?
Post 03 Aug 2015, 11:21
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1180
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HaHaAnonymous
Quote:

What do you mean "better"? Faster?

Better. I mean I can do it with more quality, more options available, without worry about cracking trial software.

There are programs for Linux that are not existent for Windows and are better than the paid alternatives in Windows. LOL!
Post 03 Aug 2015, 14:54
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
Location: 0x77760000
typedef
HaHaAnonymous wrote:
Quote:

What do you mean "better"? Faster?

Better. I mean I can do it with more quality, more options available, without worry about cracking trial software.

There are programs for Linux that are not existent for Windows and are better than the paid alternatives in Windows. LOL!


But how is that a con or better yet a pro? It's the developer's decision to develop for a single OS, free or not and that has a nothing to do with an Operating System's quality.

If FASM was paid and only available on Windows and NASM was free on Linux would you say Linux is better? Doesn't correlate.
Post 03 Aug 2015, 16:42
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HaHaAnonymous



Joined: 02 Dec 2012
Posts: 1180
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HaHaAnonymous
Quote:

But how is that a con or better yet a pro? It's the developer's decision to develop for a single OS, free or not and that has a nothing to do with an Operating System's quality.

I did not say or mean that this has to do with operating system quality.

Quote:

If FASM was paid and only available on Windows and NASM was free on Linux would you say Linux is better?

It is not because of this I find Linux is better.

Quote:
It's the developer's decision to develop for a single OS

I do not think it is only a developer choice for not making a Windows or OS X version of his program. There are certain types of programs that could not be made for Windows (due to its limitations).

Just my opinion.
Post 03 Aug 2015, 21:32
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
Quote:

There are certain types of programs that could not be made for Windows (due to its limitations).

Name one.
Post 03 Aug 2015, 22:23
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Trinitek



Joined: 06 Nov 2011
Posts: 257
Trinitek
HaHaAnonymous wrote:
Better. I mean I can do it with more quality, more options available, without worry about cracking trial software.

There are programs for Linux that are not existent for Windows and are better than the paid alternatives in Windows. LOL!

I've never had to use trial software for anything. Confused Most of the time, if I need a utility for Linux that doesn't have a Win32 binary -- and the ones that I've needed usually do -- I can build it with GCC or whatever.
Post 04 Aug 2015, 00:42
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PeExecutable



Joined: 26 Jun 2015
Posts: 181
PeExecutable
TmX wrote:
But what to proud of being "1%"?. If Linux users, which are 1%, are considered smart, then smaller OS users (< 1%) like Menuet or Kolibri then should be considered supreme-being or genius. Am I right? Laughing

I use Linux because I want to get the work done, not for being among the 1%.

Being smart means you make money, and if you have money you're probably stuck with windows ultimate and not so much linux, simply because you can afford it. If you're not smart, you're probably broke and then have to settle with a free operating system.

I use both windows and linux and in terms of stability I've never had windows crash yet, and I've had Linux crash 3 times in four months, and that's with one of the more famous distro's, which is known for stability. Based on experience, I've had a lot less problems with windows than with linux.

From most of my experiences when I talk to linux experts and they brag about Linux, most of it is false and they don't exactly know what they are talking about. I have more than once been approached with linux experts telling me that something is better in linux vs windows and it isn't just false but the opposite is true.

From experience, most linux users I know are what I call "systemeers", they are good at managing things, probably in life elsewhere too, but they are not very technical in nature. I think it's all hype, they "feel" technical because of the technical "look" to it, you do many things in the command line (and linux has a very powerful command line, no doubt about that), but there is nothing you can't do in powershell.

Speaking of "hacking", one of my friends who live nearby is a hacker and he uses windows when he is doing that. You'd be amazed that the most technical guys out there use windows. I know at least 8 other people who use linux who isn't nearly as competent as that guy who uses windows.

If you take into consideration the huge abstraction layers on top of windows and all the levels of quality assurance programs, driver models, the amount of drivers available on the market and how microsoft implements all of that without a single crash occuring, and compare that to the relatively narrow set of features available for linux, and still, linux can't handle all of that perfectly without crashing, you can see the more stable of the two.
Post 04 Aug 2015, 09:42
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Foxxy



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 42
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow...
Foxxy
I do not consider myself to be a massive techie, nor do I consider myself to be all that smart. I will, however, say that every time I have ever wanted to give Linux a shot (Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, Tails, the list goes on...) I only ever come across issues that are unique to me, or that are common and have not been fixed but still break the system.

9 times out of 10 I cannot get the installer to boot.
9 times out of 10 when I get the installer working, it fails the install.
9 times out of 10 when I get a distro installed, drivers break.
9 times out of 10 when I install proprietary drivers over shit open-source ones, my distro breaks. (The open-source ones are broken most of the time as well)
9 times out of 10 when I somehow, by the grace of god, get my drivers working, something else obscure and annoying breaks.
9 times out of 10 when I fix that thing, something ELSE breaks.

My point being, I am very patient. I have spent days of my life trying to get different flavors of Linux to install. When I finally do get an install working, I am then tasked with the annoyance of dual booting. Grub, for whatever reason, hates being installed on a separate disk from C:\. So, in the spirit of exasperation, I install rEFInd and have a good time being able to boot whatever I want. Finally, I can use Linux. I then stare at the screen, wondering what it was all for. Thinking to myself, "Why did I do this, everything I can do here I can do in Windows in an easier fashion".

Beyond a package manager (and the fact some distros are free) that allows me to download packages easily, I do not see the advantages of Linux (having tried it multiple times). The command line is only slightly more powerful than that provided by Windows (not including PowerShell).

I would love for someone to show me the light of Linux, but as of yet I do not see any reason to even dual boot them.
Post 04 Aug 2015, 23:04
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Eduardo



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 23
Eduardo
I only use Gnu/Linux (i'll call it just linux now) in my personal computers.
Linux isn't the ideal, but I prefer it because:

1 - its libre (free as in "free speech")
2 - i cannot use the WinAPI, my head hurts just by remembering it exists.
i prefer to memorize linux syscalls. Isn't the ideal, but hurts less
3 - im always modifying or reading the sources of the softwares i use, including the kernel. I read a lot of software. Sometimes i make little mods. Sometimes i end with completely rewriten files.
5 - I have a desperate need of knowing what is my computer doing with the costly electricity that i paid, and linux its kinda transparent by nature
6 - dont like to use the mouse so much, i prefer tons of tabs in lxterminal, just work
7 - linux loves me, and my hardware Smile
8 - linux memory management beats windows attempt by far!
9 - I use my RAM as a temporary file storage area. my system never write a temp file to the harddisk, never!!
10 - i dont use grub, i use a simple syslinux menu with 6 or more recompiled kernel and run freedos options.
11 - my computer's complete booting process time, from bios post to compiz fusion varies between 9 and 15 seconds. All services running, and fully ready to work hard for the whole day.
12 - I only experience crashes when my hardware have a problem.
13 - when you put a pendrive and windows dont say a thing, or if you have a deviant hardware, how do you do? I just type dmesg in a open term to know whats the problem.
14 - if a evil program refuse to die, i just need to type ctrl+alt+backspace, and the machine its ready again
15 - no need to reboot, never!
16 - i have a customized linux distro in my pendrive. it occupies 200 MB, with internet browser, geany, fasm, gcc, and a ton of little optimized cli tools.
17 - with linux i can get the maximum of control i can get from my machine, EVER
Post 05 Aug 2015, 01:30
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
Location: 0x77760000
typedef
Eduardo wrote:
I only use Gnu/Linux (i'll call it just linux now) in my personal computers.
Linux isn't the ideal, but I prefer it because:

1 - its libre (free as in "free speech")
2 - i cannot use the WinAPI, my head hurts just by remembering it exists.
i prefer to memorize linux syscalls. Isn't the ideal, but hurts less
3 - im always modifying or reading the sources of the softwares i use, including the kernel. I read a lot of software. Sometimes i make little mods. Sometimes i end with completely rewriten files.
5 - I have a desperate need of knowing what is my computer doing with the costly electricity that i paid, and linux its kinda transparent by nature
6 - dont like to use the mouse so much, i prefer tons of tabs in lxterminal, just work
7 - linux loves me, and my hardware Smile
8 - linux memory management beats windows attempt by far!
9 - I use my RAM as a temporary file storage area. my system never write a temp file to the harddisk, never!!
10 - i dont use grub, i use a simple syslinux menu with 6 or more recompiled kernel and run freedos options.
11 - my computer's complete booting process time, from bios post to compiz fusion varies between 9 and 15 seconds. All services running, and fully ready to work hard for the whole day.
12 - I only experience crashes when my hardware have a problem.
13 - when you put a pendrive and windows dont say a thing, or if you have a deviant hardware, how do you do? I just type dmesg in a open term to know whats the problem.
14 - if a evil program refuse to die, i just need to type ctrl+alt+backspace, and the machine its ready again
15 - no need to reboot, never!
16 - i have a customized linux distro in my pendrive. it occupies 200 MB, with internet browser, geany, fasm, gcc, and a ton of little optimized cli tools.
17 - with linux i can get the maximum of control i can get from my machine, EVER


Lol. Lots of those have nothing to do with any OS. It's what you give it. Any system having a startup list is bound to slow down if the list gets too big or there's a program that hogs time.

I think you just don't know how to tune and organize your computer.

Quote:
12 - I only experience crashes when my hardware have a problem.

*Facepalm* So windows just crashes when it decides?

Quote:
13 - when you put a pendrive and windows dont say a thing, or if you have a deviant hardware, how do you do? I just type dmesg in a open term to know whats the problem.

Seriously, What world do you live in? Have you actually used Windows before?

Quote:
16 - i have a customized linux distro in my pendrive. it occupies 200 MB, with internet browser, geany, fasm, gcc, and a ton of little optimized cli tools.

jajajajajajajajajajajajajajaja.

Quote:
with linux i can get the maximum of control i can get from my machine, EVER

Hahahaha. Ok. What desktop OS doesn't let you have full control?
Post 05 Aug 2015, 02:14
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
Foxxy wrote:

I would love for someone to show me the light of Linux, but as of yet I do not see any reason to even dual boot them.


You should ask yourself what do you expect to achieve with Linux then Smile

For me, there are 2 reasons:
1. Most web development related tools requires Linux (or UNIX in general).
2. The kernel is open source. Anytime I want to study the code, I can always fetch the latest and study it.

I've installed several Linux distros on my laptops, and honestly it's not all roses though. In the past, usually WiFi is the problem. But through some Googling and reading at Linux forums, it can be solved. Of course, YMMV .

BTW, I still play PC games so ditching Windows completely is not an option. Dual boot works fine for me Smile
Post 05 Aug 2015, 02:44
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