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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1493
Furs
sleepsleep wrote:
compassion must come with power,
and it becomes whose version of compassion,

but is compassion something universal?
the lion been hungry for 3 days,
Definitely not. Compassion is a human trait and in some cases not even that: some humans are incapable of compassion. Literally.

Just because it seems natural to you doesn't mean everyone else shares it. Empathy is a very complex emotion, which requires an advanced brain function. Some people lack this function, they are called psychopaths.

It's easy to label someone as psychopath and mock them as "monsters", but remember that people didn't choose to be born lacking that brain capacity. So actually, people who think that way don't really have empathy for others who are not like them. It's no different than mocking someone because he was born blind.

Note that there's a large difference between a sociopath and a psychopath. A sociopath is one who has the brain function necessary for empathy, but he learned to ignore it or suppress it for whatever reason (usually childhood abuse). A psychopath always lacked empathy, since birth. He was born that way. There is no way you can make him feel it, perhaps he can understand it to a degree, but he will never feel it, unless you alter his brain with technology.

And again: empathy is a complex emotion that requires an advanced brain function. You won't find it in (most? all?) animals and not even all humans.

Thinking that everyone shares empathy is arrogant to the point of discrediting anyone who doesn't have it, no different than the "rich elite" treat the "inferior peasants" as garbage, you're doing the same thing by assuming everyone has empathy! (or labeling them as monsters otherwise)

sleepsleep wrote:
i don't think i have insight on how to solve this,

it sounds like conflicting design from the ground up,

if plant could live with sun light and water, why the perverse design for animals and human to consume meat and finding ways to prey and killing targets?

any excuse for not able to create human who just need sun light etc is sign of lack of power,

it seems to me, the root cause of violent is because the weakness that person or conscious holding,

and to hide his/her weaknesses, it resorted to violence in order to redirect attention to some where else,

violence is certainly a sign of weakness, like brute force a lock
Or, you know, it's in response to someone else that pisses you off with whatever means. Such as someone else initiating the violent attack in the first place. Don't be a doormat. Retaliate.
Post 17 Nov 2018, 15:22
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
would traveling through ocean safer?

or the idea is pushed aside because it is harder for immigration to control?

how large the ship we need cross ocean? surely, there are pirates everywhere trying to rob us,

risk seems like a built in factor in this realm,

changes and risk,

Say Goodbye to Arab Oil and Hello to Israel’s Car That Runs on Air and Water
https://jewtube.tv/innovation/say-goodbye-arab-oil-hello-israels-car-runs-air-water/

welcome using water to power everything,
Post 17 Nov 2018, 15:29
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Furs wrote:

Definitely not. Compassion is a human trait and in some cases not even that: some humans are incapable of compassion. Literally.

Just because it seems natural to you doesn't mean everyone else shares it. Empathy is a very complex emotion, which requires an advanced brain function. Some people lack this function, they are called psychopaths.

It's easy to label someone as psychopath and mock them as "monsters", but remember that people didn't choose to be born lacking that brain capacity. So actually, people who think that way don't really have empathy for others who are not like them. It's no different than mocking someone because he was born blind.

Note that there's a large difference between a sociopath and a psychopath. A sociopath is one who has the brain function necessary for empathy, but he learned to ignore it or suppress it for whatever reason (usually childhood abuse). A psychopath always lacked empathy, since birth. He was born that way. There is no way you can make him feel it, perhaps he can understand it to a degree, but he will never feel it, unless you alter his brain with technology.

And again: empathy is a complex emotion that requires an advanced brain function. You won't find it in (most? all?) animals and not even all humans.

Thinking that everyone shares empathy is arrogant to the point of discrediting anyone who doesn't have it, no different than the "rich elite" treat the "inferior peasants" as garbage, you're doing the same thing by assuming everyone has empathy! (or labeling them as monsters otherwise)


empathy is a complex emotion that requires an advanced brain function

this made me despise the designer even more,

is like having a non-empathy built-in conscious with purpose to create chaos, and nothing but chaos, what the hell is that designer thinking, damn it,
Post 17 Nov 2018, 15:36
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
The "designer" (aka evolution) doesn't have a purpose or a goal. It is geared towards propagating genes, nothing else. It has no notion of empathy, helpfulness, caring, good or evil. It doesn't think or plan.

Chaos is good for evolution because it creates opportunities for genes to mutate and try out new variations. Many/most variations are inferior and die quickly, but a few are beneficial and propagate onwards to future generations.

Humans are still evolving. We are becoming taller, stronger and smarter. This makes us more resilient to attacks (by animals and other humans), thus making us more able to survive. Would you begrudge the superior ability to survive that modern humans have over our predecessors?
Post 17 Nov 2018, 18:53
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
does giving bunch of monkeys keyboard and visual studio, eventually they will build an operating system?

propagating genes is a purpose, it must be programmed or it must communicate back and let the system know, this works and please continue with this way and not other ways,

to communicate back, inform and decide we stick with this plan, is already some sort of programming there,

evolution exists, but we can't ignore that, there exists rules before evolution started playing its role, imo,

idk if human still evolving? and i couldn't help to wonder, what would be progressive ai end game?

assume human is soem sort of ai too, we created ai, then our ai created another ai, and this whole shit is LOL non-stop with loop Laughing

i don't think modern human could survive in forest for a week, compare to ancient human, we are devolving at fastest speed possible,
Post 17 Nov 2018, 19:57
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
sleepsleep wrote:
propagating genes is a purpose ...
It is an outcome. We have no evidence of any purpose.
Post 17 Nov 2018, 20:03
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
surely it is an outcome,

an outcome that keeps on differing might show no evidence of purpose,

but a an outcome that keeps on showing the same, most likely tell us, there are system and rules there, and purposes,

imo,
Post 18 Nov 2018, 02:58
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1493
Furs
sleepsleep wrote:
empathy is a complex emotion that requires an advanced brain function

this made me despise the designer even more,

is like having a non-empathy built-in conscious with purpose to create chaos, and nothing but chaos, what the hell is that designer thinking, damn it,
Or maybe empathy requires a lot of processing power and is simply not possible to do otherwise? Ever thought about this possibility?

By all means though, do develop your own empathy on robots or the like, maybe it's easier than how the brain is made. I'm sure you'll become super famous if that happens (no sarcasm!). Biological life forms are kind of not that optimal after all.
Post 18 Nov 2018, 12:31
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
somehow this idea struck me today,

you see, most people got some sort of access to laptop or pc nowadays, be it old core 2 duo, pentium or, 2nd gen i5, i7, or latest i9, 8th gen cpu, 4GB or 8GB or perhaps, more, 32GB and 64GB of memory,

using windows, mac os x, linux, bsd or etc os,

having great tools is surely something everybody dream, probably some prefer 386 or 486, or maybe 8086,

but what exactly we doing with these great tools? what exactly the solution we could imagine to assist humanity and bring them and us to become greater human?

Furs wrote:
Or maybe empathy requires a lot of processing power and is simply not possible to do otherwise?

probably, because putting ourselves into other people shoes certainly mean, some sort of realistic imagination going on, that you felt you sort of becoming that person who is suffering,

it probably like EAX able to hold and process content inside EBX, ECX and EDX?

but why couldn't a single register, where only input feed, and 3 or 7 other output register,
Post 18 Nov 2018, 13:55
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
why brutalism, the way of killing became some sort of art? inside movie, poster and so on? isn't it weird?

why isn't that we want to video in a beautiful way something which is clearly, causing pain if the one who get slaughtered is us?

yah, maybe they are psychopath, they actually feel exciting when seeing suffering happened in others,

but does this actually could affect and effect others to become psychopath too? i think the answer is quite yes, they are infectious,
Post 18 Nov 2018, 15:46
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
it just kinda impressive,

the learning power that most human got, they happened so naturally, almost unaware by most of us, and yet, we keep on learning and profiting by having such ability,

even trying to imagine how, ocr that would always work is something kinda tedious and magical, the ability to recognize and learn,

how exactly our conscious, ourselves, keep on storing these information?

there got to be some sort of format, or these whole thing are without format?

how our vision gets stored, our dreams, the vivid sound, and so on,

it just amazing,

what kind of inventory management that actually happened inside our mind?

we been taking all these for granted, and hardly realized, these are so precious, and powerful, and almost mysterious,

wave form,

maybe the best way to store information is using wave form, for sure one could digitalized those waves,

how to convert or store an image into wave like those audio file? and yet could be pickup translated back to some sort of vision?

not sure how those with realistic vision memories work, i don't have such vision, images always appeared blurry, kinda not so like what i saw, but yet it feels like what i saw,

wow, so much to discover and pondering,
Post 18 Nov 2018, 18:11
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1493
Furs
sleepsleep wrote:
why brutalism, the way of killing became some sort of art? inside movie, poster and so on? isn't it weird?

why isn't that we want to video in a beautiful way something which is clearly, causing pain if the one who get slaughtered is us?
Because only happy stuff is for little kids or girls. Razz

No, seriously, it's boring as hell with no drama at the very least, unless it's a comedy (which is a different thing altogether).

sleepsleep wrote:
yah, maybe they are psychopath, they actually feel exciting when seeing suffering happened in others,

but does this actually could affect and effect others to become psychopath too? i think the answer is quite yes, they are infectious,
You can't become a psychopath. If you "become" a psychopath, you are technically a sociopath. So you can go back to what you were, somehow (don't ask me I'm not a psychiatrist).
Post 18 Nov 2018, 20:18
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
I thought Deadpool and Deadpool 2 (the movies) were hilarious. They have lots of violence and killing and general mayhem everywhere. It hasn't turned me into a maniacal killing murderer. I don't think it turned anybody into a maniacal killing murderer. It did make a lot of people laugh and feel happy.

I think because it is so removed of our everyday experience that it becomes interesting. If it was just a normal boring everyday thing then there is no incentive to watch the movie, since we are already living it.

Imagine this movie: "Ordinary Jane Doe sits in her cubical and debugs some code for two hours." She is helping the world to be better by making the code have fewer bugs. But it would be so boring. It would have no entertainment value.
Post 18 Nov 2018, 20:31
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1493
Furs
sleepsleep wrote:
it just kinda impressive,

the learning power that most human got, they happened so naturally, almost unaware by most of us, and yet, we keep on learning and profiting by having such ability,

even trying to imagine how, ocr that would always work is something kinda tedious and magical, the ability to recognize and learn,

how exactly our conscious, ourselves, keep on storing these information?

there got to be some sort of format, or these whole thing are without format?

how our vision gets stored, our dreams, the vivid sound, and so on,

it just amazing,

what kind of inventory management that actually happened inside our mind?

we been taking all these for granted, and hardly realized, these are so precious, and powerful, and almost mysterious,

wave form,

maybe the best way to store information is using wave form, for sure one could digitalized those waves,

how to convert or store an image into wave like those audio file? and yet could be pickup translated back to some sort of vision?

not sure how those with realistic vision memories work, i don't have such vision, images always appeared blurry, kinda not so like what i saw, but yet it feels like what i saw,

wow, so much to discover and pondering,
Indeed, making a general purpose AI seems like a daunting task that's probably going to be impossible given current (and future) technology.

I mean, the AI will easily surpass human intelligence for specialized tasks. But even so, it will require much more power usage than a brain, not to mention space and everything if it will likely be in a server cluster.

The sad reality is that it's nowhere near the efficiency of the human brain.
Post 18 Nov 2018, 20:32
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Furs wrote:
I mean, the AI will easily surpass human intelligence for specialized tasks. But even so, it will require much more power usage than a brain, not to mention space and everything if it will likely be in a server cluster.

The sad reality is that it's nowhere near the efficiency of the human brain.
So let's make an AI where the specialised task is to design the next generation AI. Keep building on the previous designs and one day you will have a super efficient general purpose AI (that then goes on to enslave humanity (for our own protection of course)).
Post 18 Nov 2018, 20:36
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Furs wrote:

Because only happy stuff is for little kids or girls.

No, seriously, it's boring as hell with no drama at the very least, unless it's a comedy (which is a different thing altogether).

maybe am a little bit old now, just want to have a peaceful life, harmony, and pondering about life,

Furs wrote:

You can't become a psychopath.

maybe the more one watch, the less brain empathy region gonna functions, until one moment, empathy region totally lose its function,

revolution wrote:

So let's make an AI where the specialised task is to design the next generation AI. Keep building on the previous designs and one day you will have a super efficient general purpose AI (that then goes on to enslave humanity (for our own protection of course)).

cross fingers,

a day without physical suffering for humanity,

i read something really nice earlier, couldn't find the link anymore, otherwise i will share with you all,
Post 19 Nov 2018, 13:46
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
The remote UK community living off-grid
https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-45046023

back to nature and find the many reasons to live according to our own values, life is too short to keep on following others,
Post 19 Nov 2018, 15:30
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Michael Bloomberg makes $1.8 billion donation to Johns Hopkins University
Quote:

Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is giving $1.8 billion to Johns Hopkins University. The gift is believed to be the largest ever to an academic institution. The money is earmarked for scholarships and grants for undergraduate students from low and middle-income families, Mr. Bloomberg, 76, said through a press release. The gift will enable Johns Hopkins to become one of just a handful of need-blind schools -- meaning students will be considered for admission regardless of their ability to pay. Currently, 44% of Johns Hopkins students graduate with some form of debt averaging $24,000. From a report:
Post 19 Nov 2018, 17:46
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
將夜 - everlasting night
http://www.playq.cc/cn/cn181031/ep1.php

on going drama series, brutal scenes,

based on novel,
Post 20 Nov 2018, 18:56
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
tidying up some boxes, saw some wedding invitation cards,

i then chuckle over the fact that, the card is harder than the marriage, Laughing,

how many couples end up with divorce but their wedding invitation card still exists, safe and sound? Laughing

irony,

probably even more irony is, human spending his whole life time to gather something that he totally despise and throw away later,

is like playing a game in order to not playing it later,

writing codes in order to not writing them later,

breathing in order to not breathing, well, min mind suddenly switch to, do i breath when i am in dream?

it seems that, afaic recall, i hardly remembered i breath in my dream,

yeah, how come all these are so impermanent, Laughing

the chaos that resulted so many stories,

even reaching the point to wonder,
bugs must exists in a perfect system? it seems the answer is actually yes,
because a perfect is imperfect without some bugs,

what game are we all into?
Post 20 Nov 2018, 23:22
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