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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
YONG wrote:
sleepsleep wrote:
- for sure, this is how the religion educate mass people, bringing some sort of illusion hope into people mind when they are hopeless
A long time ago, I challenged the believers on this message board to give me one miracle -- within 24 hours, cure all the patients that are totally paralyzed down the neck due to spinal injuries. A couple of believers did respond to my challenge and gave me cliches like "God cannot be tested". And of course, no miracle happened to those poor patients. Crying or Very sad

When we are hopeless, we should check our inbox -- a new message may have arrived, which has the word "HOPE" as its subject. Nonetheless, the message could be a spam.

Wink

so, what should inside our conscious mind (your suggestion) when we are hopeless? Embarassed

YONG wrote:
pm message

ok, but why? Laughing
Post 01 Aug 2017, 12:04
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
revolution wrote:
You can't mix universes and galaxies together, they are different concepts.
Ah, I see. This time, your "different semantics, same outcome" argument does not apply! Mad

The idea is that "the other side" could be within the same universe, a different universe, and even a higher dimension.

Wink
Post 01 Aug 2017, 12:10
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
YONG wrote:
pm message
ok, but why? Laughing
What are you talking about? Did I write "pm message" in my previous post?

Rolling Eyes
Post 01 Aug 2017, 12:13
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
what should inside our conscious mind (your suggestion) when we are hopeless? Embarassed
A four-letter word: HOPE.

Don't give up hope till our very last breath!

Wink
Post 01 Aug 2017, 12:16
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1467
Furs
@YONG: There's movies with amazing CG that show Earth is flat too, or that the Christian God exists or angels or demons or whatever, so what's the reason for your bias? I don't see it any different than religion.

About higher dimensions: where do you get this idea from, exactly? GR math certainly is concerned with spacetime (not millions of dimensions like String Theory), and it's only that math that can "describe" a hypothetical Worm Hole. (that's why it's even called a Worm Hole and not a Dimensional Portal)

Anything else is just as valid as any piece of sci-fi, which is to say, not so much.

Yeah Worm Holes could teleport you to a totally different "dimension" (but then they wouldn't be called Worm Holes anymore), but then again, so could magic exist in this world, or invisible flying pink unicorn, or a classic (religion-depicted) God for that matter.
Post 01 Aug 2017, 12:19
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Furs wrote:
@YONG: There's movies with amazing CG that show Earth is flat too, or that the Christian God exists or angels or demons or whatever, so what's the reason for your bias? I don't see it any different than religion.
You took it a bit too serious here. My "movie with amazing CG" argument was meant to be a joke.

Wink
Post 01 Aug 2017, 12:23
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Furs wrote:
About higher dimensions: where do you get this idea from, exactly?
It is purely my speculation!

Assuming that wormholes do exist, we don't know what "the other side" could lead us to. If the destination happens to be a universe with vastly-different fundamental constants and physical laws, why can't it have or be a higher dimension?

Wink
Post 01 Aug 2017, 12:30
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
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Furs
But wormholes aren't portals to arbitrary stuff. That's why they're called wormholes. They just connect two pieces of spacetime (look at one of those 2D diagrams on the wiki).

Imagine the Universe's spacetime is bent like the surface of an apple (this means 2D Universe, but easier to visualize since we can't imagine 4D). Any massive object will bend the apple's surface downwards (towards its center). A "wormhole" is called that way because worms make holes through an apple, instead of going around it. In this case a Black Hole positioned at one end of the apple could "theoretically" bend it so much that it connects with a black hole from the other side of the apple (at its center). There's nothing about a "totally different world", just a shortcut from one end of the Universe to another. However, I don't find it plausible how you can escape the center of the apple at all (since I don't believe in White Holes, yet). Not to mention you'd need two blackholes synced properly to even have it "work".

Now of course you could be talking about interdimensional portals and all that sci-fi stuff but those aren't wormholes. Wink

There's another problem with wormholes: Matter that falls into a black hole never truly reaches the black hole from an outside perspective. So if you were to arrive in the black hole, you'd not experience an infinite amount of time passing unless you went out (that's why it's paradoxical to go out of a black hole). But to people outside, you take an infinite amount of time to enter the Black Hole.

Thus, if you were to escape the Black Hole from the "other side", you'd end up in the Universe after an infinite amount of time has passed. Even if not "infinite" (because math is never right, only idealistic approximations), it's still a heck of a lot of time. Anyway, everyone is probably dead by then. To you, time passes normally, but to the rest of the Universe, you probably took billions of years to just pass through the black hole (if not more).

Though of course, that's if you can even get out of a black hole which is impossible unless some quantum effect happens (because quantization makes ideal math wrong)
Post 01 Aug 2017, 13:56
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Furs wrote:
There's nothing about a "totally different world", just a shortcut from one end of the Universe to another.
Why? What prohibits such a portal from connecting two vastly-different universes?

If the insanely-huge gravity of a black hole, neutron star, dark matter, and the like can distort/twist spacetime in such a way to connect two distant points, what makes you think the two points MUST belong to the same universe?

Rolling Eyes
Post 02 Aug 2017, 02:12
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Furs wrote:
Thus, if you were to escape the Black Hole from the "other side", you'd end up in the Universe after an infinite amount of time has passed.
I have already pointed out that there does not necessarily have a black hole on the other side of the portal. It could be a neutron star, dark matter, and the like, something that distorts/twists spacetime immensely.

The passage of time is another story. We are talking about intergalactic journeys -- and even traveling between universes or dimensions. A traveler embarking on such a journey should never look back. Period!

Wink
Post 02 Aug 2017, 02:30
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
2nd August 2017

- this happened yesterday night,

- i need to google for a motherboard front panel switch, it was ancient 775 socket and basically, i got it because people don't want them,

- but internet speed is like snail and turtle, i found frustration, anger, and impatience, yah, i curse my isp, umobile, the speed is like 10kilobyte/second, barely load up anything,

- it was around 8pm, and internet is unusable till 11 pm, i felt damn frustrated, because i want to settle this pc and use it tomorrow,

- then i go and rest and ponder,

- what if, this kind of eagerness, impatience, frustration, anger, is basically what the rapists, serial killers have, when they want to rape someone or kill someone?

- you see, these kind of feeling is exactly same, it just our objective appears different, but they are exactly same, they are subtle,

- the killers cannot wait, the rapists cannot wait, they want the changes be performed at this f. moment, no f. delay, is like how i want to know how to set up this motherboard front panel correctly,

- and when we demand changes, to our preferred changes, and we demand those changes now, then basically, we become rapist and killer at that moment,

- ever wonder why we couldn't wait? why no delay? why everything must be now, and instant? Idea
Post 02 Aug 2017, 03:05
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
- you see, these kind of feeling is exactly same, it just our objective appears different, but they are exactly same
Nope. They are different -- one kind leads to criminal actions whereas the other kind does not.

For example, when I offer help to someone or do someone a favor, I expect the beneficiary to at least say a little "thank you". Yet, the beneficiary usually just takes things for granted and does not even appreciate my help.

In fact, such a situation happens a lot on this message board. A forum member asks whether or not an on-paper design works in real life. So, I give him a detailed answer. But then he never says a little "thank you" or responds to my answer.

Situations like that do upset me a little bit. Still, my inhibitions will never let such unpleasant feelings drive my actions.

For rapists and murderers, the story is very different.
Post 02 Aug 2017, 04:37
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
YONG wrote:

For example, when I offer help to someone or do someone a favor, I expect the beneficiary to at least say a little "thank you". Yet, the beneficiary usually just takes things for granted and does not even appreciate my help.

i think this is quite norm nowadays, Wink
it is never easy to become good guy, Laughing

btw, i always appreciate all the kindness people sent to me in this forum, especially my drawings, Laughing thanks and thanks a lot, Embarassed from the bottom of my heart, Wink

anyway, i still think, those kind of impatience, anger, those kind of i don't f. care anything else anymore, i just want this to be done like this,

i think, such feeling, are exact copy of those rapists and murderers, they are exactly same,
Post 02 Aug 2017, 09:51
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
i always appreciate all the kindness people sent to me in this forum, especially my drawings, Laughing thanks and thanks a lot, Embarassed from the bottom of my heart, Wink
It is too late. No-one will respond to your drawings any more.

Evil or Very Mad
Post 02 Aug 2017, 10:24
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1467
Furs
YONG wrote:
Why? What prohibits such a portal from connecting two vastly-different universes?
Nothing? But nothing points to that being valid either. (well nothing prohibits from a God existing either)

YONG wrote:
If the insanely-huge gravity of a black hole, neutron star, dark matter, and the like can distort/twist spacetime in such a way to connect two distant points, what makes you think the two points MUST belong to the same universe?
Because Worm Holes are a general relativity concept? GR only describes one Universe and the bending is part of the same spacetime. And the same rules of physics. It's just a bended spacetime? Are you saying the other end of the Apple is not made up of the same type of atoms or physics?

Worm Holes as hypothesized in GR deal with the same Universe but two points on its "surface". You can of course talk about your own definition of Worm Holes but then they wouldn't really be Worm Holes. Wink

YONG wrote:
I have already pointed out that there does not necessarily have a black hole on the other side of the portal. It could be a neutron star, dark matter, and the like, something that distorts/twists spacetime immensely.
This is a different topic, but how exactly do you think you can escape from a Neutron Star? Even excluding gravity. You can survive millions or billions of degrees in temperature?

YONG wrote:
The passage of time is another story. We are talking about intergalactic journeys -- and even traveling between universes or dimensions. A traveler embarking on such a journey should never look back. Period!
I don't think you understand relativity. It has nothing to do with looking back. Heck, it has nothing to do with the "White Hole" on the other side to begin with, but to the Black Hole you enter from.

A black hole distorts spacetime not just space. Of course, let's ignore infinities for now and assume that's not possible (because it likely isn't due to quantization). So instead of infinity let's use a few billion years.

When your spacetime gets warped by the black hole (so to speak), everything around you (not just behind you) is affected. Well, everything that doesn't travel at your speed. Frames of reference don't care at all about direction (behind?). When you enter the black hole, billions of years (not infinity since our assumption) would have passed outside of it. Note I'm saying when you enter it, not when you exit it. Worm Hole or not, does not matter.

Heck, even just orbiting a supermassive black hole from close-up makes everything around you age incredibly fast. People from outside will see you get "stuck" just before entering the Black Hole. You will eventually disappear from visible light but not because you entered the Black Hole! Instead, it's because your reflected light gets redshifted, so they'll have to look at infrared and lower frequencies to be able to see you "stay still" near the Black Hole.

See for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNaEBbFbvcY (watch the whole video, not just the title, trust me it explains this)
Post 02 Aug 2017, 12:37
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Furs wrote:
But nothing points to that being valid either.
Exactly! Then, how can you be so sure that you are right?

Rolling Eyes
Post 02 Aug 2017, 12:46
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Furs wrote:
GR only describes one Universe and the bending is part of the same spacetime.
GR describes how the presence of mass and momentum distorts spacetime. Is there anything in GR that prohibits us from applying the notion of a wormhole to more than one universe?

Rolling Eyes
Post 02 Aug 2017, 12:51
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1467
Furs
YONG wrote:
Exactly! Then, how can you be so sure that you are right?
I never said I'm "right", it's just my theory/opinion and what I find likely.

However, you're the one rejecting a Creator for lack of proof or evidence, when you believe such sci-fi nonsense that falls into the exact same category, you know Wink (I mean that's where this started from)

BTW GR can apply to a different Universe (you'd have to change the math then unless it's a replica of this Universe in terms of laws, not data), but a Worm Hole does not connect two Universes. It connects the same spacetime. It's like you bend a sheet of paper and connect it at the same spot backwards. Is that a different sheet of paper or what?

For something to connect two Universes, you'd have to find a new term and different math for it. (I'm sure String Theory has something considering it has a billion dimensions, I find it bullshit to be honest Razz)
Post 02 Aug 2017, 12:54
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Furs wrote:
how exactly do you think you can escape from a Neutron Star? Even excluding gravity. You can survive millions or billions of degrees in temperature?
Newly-formed neutron stars could have surface temperatures of around 1 million Kelvin. Non-accreting (meaning lone / without an accompanying star), aged neutron stars could be very cold.

At least there is no event horizon around a neutron star. So, a fast enough spaceship might be able to escape its gravity before getting too close. (BTW, you are the physics guru here and you should figure out how to do so. Right?)

Wink


Last edited by YONG on 03 Aug 2017, 05:16; edited 1 time in total
Post 02 Aug 2017, 13:03
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
Furs wrote:
I don't think you understand relativity. It has nothing to do with looking back.
I don't think that you understand English. "Never look back", in that context, means "forget about the past". I mean that the traveler should forget about his/her past and embrace the future.

Wink
Post 02 Aug 2017, 13:09
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