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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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revolution
YONG wrote:
I was talking about the plot of the aforementioned movie. You should direct your questions to the story writer.
It looked like you were addressing sleepsleep's post. I responded accordingly.

But anyhow, I think my questions are still valid concerns people should have if we ever get such capabilities. We already see the problems with entrusting our digital data the third parties. And the stakes are raised by many orders of magnitude if it came to entrusting every aspect of our lives to third parties.
Post 27 Feb 2017, 12:53
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
i need to download the movie from baidu cloud, watch it before i got the idea how it actually beams, please be patient, Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

revolution wrote:

We already see the problems with entrusting our digital data the third parties. And the stakes are raised by many orders of magnitude if it came to entrusting every aspect of our lives to third parties.

so any idea how to create a simple, secure, trust system?

eg, how nature, animal deal with trust? or is there any secret, hidden stuffs in everything? or nature prefer transparency? how nature protect them,

since we got hashes, does our dna having hash too? checksum, how to copy things,

eg,
nature (assume universes or etc bigger universes or whatever out there) exists and will exists forever, never created, are there before there, and will be there after there,

from what i know, everything seem transparent, conscious could view everything, study everything, almost no restriction in conscious to know how, why, etc w, things work,

eg, plants, flowers, even human, there are multiple layers, the outer are what everybody could see, but to view deeper, micro sense, we need tools,

but everything seem so well contained, flower a, human b, animal c, if container breaks, what inside will die,

like a packaging, eye is an eye, there are cables to connect everything, but there still in their own container, blood like cpu cooling liquid, skeleton is like a casing,

what kind of trust system exists in nature, or inside human body? any link?
Post 27 Feb 2017, 17:48
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
sleepsleep wrote:
so any idea how to create a simple, secure, trust system?
I doubt one exists. Many very clever people have tried to solve such problems, but so far there is no solutions. If you can find one then you will be famous.
Post 27 Feb 2017, 18:07
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
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Furs
revolution wrote:
Who are you going to trust to correctly handle your consciousness? What if the "beam" is insecure and gets hacked or redirected? Or maybe someone accidentally presses the wrong button and deletes or corrupts it. Or maybe it gets forgotten and left to suffer bit-rot on some HDD or SSD (or whatever storage) somewhere. What if there are multiple copies; which one, if any, gets the "right" to survive?
Easy. Just copy your consciousness and have an army of conscious clones.

When you have enough of them to operate the machine (controlling robots or something like that), do it on your remaining physical self (assuming it's going to die or something like that). No trust required, because you can see it worked on THEM. (unless there's a hidden timebomb but that's why copies are important and spread them out to different systems etc)

Well... you require trusting yourself I guess. Some (extremely selfish) people probably don't. Razz

Personally, I'd love to have clones of myself, would get much more done because I wouldn't have to argue with them at all since I know what they think of a particular situation/opinion. And they agree with me Wink
Post 27 Feb 2017, 20:10
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
revolution wrote:

I doubt one exists. Many very clever people have tried to solve such problems, but so far there is no solutions. If you can find one then you will be famous.

if you could share me a simple trust problem, the most simple and basic one, would love to get my mind pondering on such problem,
Post 28 Feb 2017, 15:24
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
One of the most obvious trust problems is the Internet. Solve that and you will not only be famous you could also become very wealthy. But you would have to work hard to get there.
Post 28 Feb 2017, 15:45
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
1st March 2017

- march coming, very fast,

- imagine i got a very smart ai assistant, be it human, robot or just software form, how would i use it,

- conscious seem to have infinite questions, but to understand the questions, and answers, conscious need to learn and understand a lot,

- how to have like a few millions without anybody knowing? Laughing Laughing Laughing kinda hard i think, because you basically will store those millions in bank,

- of course, you could buy lands, or assets, but probably very hard to liquid them when you need cash urgently,

- stocks market - a nice good place to hide and send bribe monies, - in a very legal way,

- but what kind of security does 10 millions provide us? we still could die anytime from now, Idea

- and we probably could die more earlier if others know we got 10 millions, Idea

- and what actually we couldn't do know and what we could do by having 10 millions?

- wps typing speed wouldn't increase if you got 10 millions, Laughing Laughing Laughing

- probably 10 millions is like buying more, more these, more that, and more, owning and having more,

- maybe more luxury breakfast, lunch, dinner and supper, but still, once you feel full, you can't consume anymore food, you will vomit them out,

- you could have lots of friends, because you got monies, Idea

- girlfriends, wives, boyfriends, husbands, etc human form, they will come to you without your summoning,

- so what is the point?

- because 10 millions couldn't make conscious capable, having knowledge or experiences instantly,

- even 100 millions couldn't make conscious capable, having knowledge or experiences instantly,

- sure conscious could buy a lot, own a lot, but does that make any difference? idk,

- eventually every conscious must leave everything behind, lmfao,
Post 28 Feb 2017, 18:04
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
1st March 2017

- to feel super happy and excited is equally to feel depress, they are just the same thing but in different form, like water in liquid and ice cubes,

- to accept one own self, one own conscious is the first step towards realization,

- to understand one own self and self conscious,

- Talking About My Depression While Feeling Depressed
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAbotDDuBds

- refer to my best moment on earth, to feel the peace and heaven on earth, Embarassed
Post 01 Mar 2017, 03:27
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
- eventually every conscious must leave everything behind, lmfao,
Knowing that immortality is nothing but a pipe dream, every soul seeks the next best thing to do with its life:

Sean Rowe -- To Leave Something Behind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvR5QdvA5WM

Wink
Post 01 Mar 2017, 03:58
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
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Furs
I don't think it's a pipe dream, at least in the "aging" sense, at all. Though, a pipe dream for sleepsleep, perhaps. (unless he wins at the lottery)
Post 01 Mar 2017, 12:28
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Furs wrote:

(unless he wins at the lottery)

hopefully i could win the toto 6D jackpot, Embarassed

Power Toto 6/55 = RM 5.4 millions
Supreme Toto 6/58 = RM 12.6 millions
Grand Toto 6/63 = RM 30 millions

but i am still clueless, what would change if i got RM 30 millions now,
Post 01 Mar 2017, 12:41
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YONG



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YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
but i am still clueless, what would change if i got RM 30 millions now,
When you do have RM 30m, transfer the money to one of the forum members. Many changes will follow.

Wink
Post 01 Mar 2017, 13:27
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
How much is RM 30 millions? I don't mean the monetary amount. The conversion rate is easily checked. I mean what can it get you? Good health? Longer life? Happier life? Better life? Or maybe ... More "friends". More problems. More threats. More taxes. More demands.

Money is not a solution to problems. All that happens is that the problems change.
Post 01 Mar 2017, 13:46
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Furs



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Furs
I disagree, money is a solution to a lot of problems. It doesn't "create" new problems. Those new problems were always there, you just ignored them because you had other problems to deal with. For example, someone starving for sure won't even think of the problems we deal with. It doesn't mean he's "happy" and not having these problems, they're simply a lower priority for him.

Money is a solution to (almost) any problem that involves other people. What they make, what they do, what services they provide, etc. That's how humanity works. They accept money in return for whatever they offer, so you can say money is a "willful mind control" in this regard.

Now it's not a solution for everything, but it is a solution for everything that requires others to do something you want them to. (either give a product they own, do something for you (services), etc). Problems that can't be done with others obviously are out of the scope of money.

In a way, money is that thing that allows you to have slaves because they are "dependent" on this money Razz


(I should add, it's not a solution for relationships/love always though, but I mean in those situations you don't "want" them to do something -- if you did, you wouldn't really love them, you'd just try to manipulate them; that said, nobody takes a broken ass pleb seriously in a relationship though Razz unless they're teens)
Post 01 Mar 2017, 15:56
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
YONG wrote:

When you do have RM 30m, transfer the money to one of the forum members. Many changes will follow.

well, if i transferred RM 5 million to you, what would you do?

revolution wrote:

I mean what can it get you? Good health? Longer life? Happier life? Better life? Or maybe ... More "friends". More problems. More threats. More taxes. More demands.

idk, because i haven't yet win the jackpot, Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

i think i will try to create better environment for poor people to live a better life, a less worried life, like providing opportunities for them to earn extra income, a more co-operative lifestyle, a better system to create a win-win situation for everybody,
Post 01 Mar 2017, 17:01
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
2nd March 2017

- i couldn't sleep, because some thoughts keep on swirling inside my mind,

- assume i am dreaming, and i saw a giant lizard, or grasshopper, or snake or whatever object,

- assume the conscious in that dream is the exact conscious right now, i would probably think, all those giants are illusion, i am dreaming right now,

- now if i imagine a giant of anything right now in front of me, the moon is like the giant eye ball,

- but why anything that doesn't fit into the conscious common sense will be illusion? but others that fit become real and not illusion?

- is like the quote selected button, preview or submit button, they are illusion, they are not exactly a button like the one you could touch, the nokia 3310 buttons that you could press,

- the ultimate question would also be, what else you want to process, what else you want to think, if let say, you attain god mode, you know about everything and everything,

- because enlightenment could be the moment you give up to know everything and thus knowing that you can't know everything, Laughing Laughing Laughing and thus know everything,

- but how your conscious would move on if you attain god mode? what is next step?

-

- now, assume there exists dimensions populated by different beings, human, giants, or etc beings, fairies, angels, demons, or etc

- what is the point of such communication?

- it could be like you put one english speaker, and another korean or japanese speaker, or indian speaker in a dark room, nobody see each others, and they try to understand each other

- but what is the purpose to understand each others?

- suppose you seek enlightenment and you already know everything, and you inside the dark room,

- you understand perfectly what everybody voices mean,

- you could become translator, but why everybody must trust you?

- so why a human want to communicate with a spirit? and why a spirit want to communicate with a human?

- assume the idea of communication is, you need alternative input, more input, different input,

- that would certainly put god in a very bad position,

- another assumption would be, you want the other beings to behave and under your controlled, do as you said, etc slaves,

- but even this idea also put god in a very bad position, it just makes god a king or queen control, ok, what is the last time god tries to contact human?

- but why the hell you want others to under your command?

- unless you require them, you need them, you just need their strength, wisdom, etc qualities that you don't have,

- because obviously, you could dismiss anyone you don't like, like burn them in hell, but the reason you require them to submit to your laws, power etc, is because you need them, you need them under your controlled,

- is like the pipe is useless if there is no water running,

- back to the dark room, so people could communicate now, what next,

- you want people to agree with your statement, you want to control others, you want to use their strength to your objectives,

- but how long this game could last?

- then you go into another dark room, and repeat what you just did, trying to understand and communicate, and get people agree with you, and influence them, control their decisions, and ask them to join you, moving towards your objectives,

- and you go into another dark room,

- wtf?

- assume there are infinite aliens race on these and other universes or etc whatever space you want to name,

- wtf is this whole thing?

- even if you die, you stay conscious, you move into another realm, basically, it will be like the dark room case i mentioned above,

- now if let say you die, you will disintegrate forever, never conscious i again,

- then that would be bigger wtf is all this,

- i put another assumption, you die, and all your past life memory combined, kinda make the conscious i crazy for a while, then you realize you already met such people before in another life,

- you remember what you did to others, and what others did to you,

- so, what is the point? you want to find them and talk about why? even to communicate seems very weird, because there is no point, unless you all plan to go into earth matrix simulator and start another game?

- now, you get tired to repeat and playing game,

- if later, after you die, you don't feel tired to repeat and playing game, then the conscious you then might be a different conscious you compare to now,

- that is another issue,

- Rolling Eyes time to sleep
Post 01 Mar 2017, 20:50
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
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Furs
Hah, if we're talking about God, I have a simpler theory for us programmers. God is a virtual reality/Artificial Intelligence developer in his outside world.

He doesn't "need" us in the slightest in the way you suggest. He "needs" us just as a researcher at e.g. Google "needs" data from his AI. To see how it behaves and how good he made it, etc.

I bet this programmer God made a bet with the "Devil" programmer (a colleague of his perhaps) that his AI is superior and won't be "tricked" by the devil. The devil on the other hand thinks God's AI design is total shit and wants to prove it to him it's easily tricked. So we're just lab rats for their bet Razz

(it doesn't take that long there, remember that a CPU processes and does things at a rate you cannot even comprehend yourself -- with us it's probably the same, 1000 years for us is maybe 1 day for the outside world of God and he can also speed it up etc like a real program being debugged; he probably uses breakpoints in his debugger when he wants to analyze a specific situation though Wink).

sleepsleep wrote:
- Rolling Eyes time to sleep
Goodnight Wink
Post 01 Mar 2017, 22:03
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
3rd March 2017

- not so motivated to do anything today, i will just keep on sleeping and sleeping,

-
Furs wrote:

He "needs" us just as a researcher

if we don't exists, god won't exists, Embarassed
so a human is blind, deaf, paralyzed, mute etc, and you just shouting some magic words to him/her,

what is the point if god exists but nobody could tell, Embarassed
and what is the point if god don't exists but people keep on saying god exists,

- i can't imagine if one got some serious illness, and just waiting for changes to take his/her life,

- how about all the shit you took on earth? they are quite meaningless,

- almost everything become meaningless, is like you got a ticket and about to fly somewhere, without taking anything,

- your crazy long password, combined with numeric, upper case, symbols, you got to leave everything behind,

- all the songs you like to hear, movies you prefer to watch, anime, cartoon, documentary, sci-fi, novels, they are not yours,

- your stocks, dividends, saving, pension funds, etc that looks so valuable now, jackpot ticket, they are meaningless,

- your cool house, car, condominium, swimming pool, awesome dresses, jackets, your beautiful girlfriends, dashing boyfriends, your soul mates, bye, you can't take anyone with you,

- i think i am quite lucky to realize all these, because only through understanding what are meaningless then only i could try to search something more meaningful,

- i think it is very important to realize nobody could live on earth for very long, but still, i hope and i bet on breakthroughs in science to allow human to stay more longer on earth, (human always contradict)

- some people set up a goal to visit places on earth before they leave, some want to enjoy all the food, girls, or etc, drugs,

- so far, i just feel happy, appreciate to live on earth, to breath, and enjoy my special moments,

- is like almost all or majority people, trading the finite amount of changes with monies, and they think they are on a good deal, Embarassed

- and once you don't do what majority people did, they will label you weirdo, which basically, the kind of feeling you get when the monkey, or cat, or cows, or etc feel you are so inferior, Embarassed

- maybe i could set, the objective of life to keep on creating good stuffs, creative stuffs, something that benefit others, (i think i mentioned this in my previous post)
Post 02 Mar 2017, 18:53
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1470
Furs
sleepsleep wrote:
what is the point if god exists but nobody could tell, Embarassed
and what is the point if god don't exists but people keep on saying god exists,
The point is simple. (well assuming my wacky theory is true)

We need to look at ways to glitch / exploit a bug in the Universe, maybe a buffer overflow or something of that sort. And then let the computer execute arbitrary code. (this will likely have to do with quantum mechanics, because that's where the low level stuff happens)

Then we can control things in God's realm (like robots, etc) or spread to their "internet". It may seem like a long process and they'll "patch" it fast, but remember: we think at lightning speed compared to this God in my theory, just like our PCs process at lightning speed compared to us. 1000 years for us is probably a few seconds for God.

First step would of course be immortality (i.e. Ray Kurzweil's Singularity), I never claimed mankind in current shape can do it. Smile

Basically we become Skynet. Wink
Post 02 Mar 2017, 22:15
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
YONG wrote:

When you do have RM 30m, transfer the money to one of the forum members. Many changes will follow.
well, if i transferred RM 5 million to you, what would you do?
I think you should settle the other half of your house loan first.

After that, if you still have a lot to share, let me know.

Wink
Post 03 Mar 2017, 03:53
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