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ford



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 102
ford
Quote:
now i could see if we are here in this simulation to solve this exact issues that cause this simulation to exists, which is actually the same exact issue that cause simulation that simulated us to exists, which is actually also the same issue that cause that level of simulation to exists which also the same issue that cause .....
Not accurate. You are locked in a reference frame in zero G. You have one window to view what is outside of the vehicle. Because of this, you cannot prove that you are moving or not moving. The same is true of any "simulated" universe. It's just theoretical bullshit. For anything that matters, the universe we have is the universe we get. It's all we have.

As for people caring or not, you are talking about the majority. Some of us in the minority do care about things. Some of us talk because we have something that we feel is important and we wish to sway the minds of others because we live in majoritarian societies.
Post 24 Nov 2016, 01:31
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
ford wrote:

The same is true of any "simulated" universe. It's just theoretical bullshit.

maybe but here my reasons why such idea is very possible

1. consider how far we came from 100 years ago, another 100 years in future will be totally mesmerizing

2. there is absolutely nothing to prevent us to hijack our own input sensors, or middle man attack, except to understand how things are coded, formatted, and transferred

3. dream is already one kind of simulated reality, another way to look this is, our physical body is capable to handle such simulated environment

4. what prevent us to question if we are inside simulation now, the moment we able to control our sensors, copy paste signals?

5. if changes could continue, no world war or etc that wipe out entire human civilization, i am pretty sure, we could achieve matrix - The Thirteenth Floor (1999)

26th November 2016
- what if the reality human doing all these, talking, caring, etc is to feed our own ego?

- is human easily offended? i think we are easily offended and switch our behaviour into aggressive and retaliation

- a human now and a monster next? why such transformation is quick and easy?

- if one could like / prefer or etc, no surprise to conclude one don't like the opposite of his/her preferential

- so you don't like fat lady not because you don't like fat lady but because you prefer slim lady, Idea

- he cares only at the moment, he wants to care, he wants to showcase his caring, it stills back to putting the self importance at front row

- as you said, probably the idea to talk and etc is to sway majority or dominate majority, to have output result exactly as he/she intended
Post 26 Nov 2016, 04:07
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
consider how far we came from 100 years ago, another 100 years in future will be totally mesmerizing
Mankind may not have another 100 years. Refer to:

Mankind will be extinct in 100 years because of climate change
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3131160/Will-child-witness-end-humanity-Mankind-extinct-100-years-climate-change-warns-expert.html

Enjoy your life while you can.

Wink
Post 26 Nov 2016, 05:39
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
27th November 2016

- in shezen i/o zachtronics game, purchasable via steam,

tgt p0 0 // test greater than
- mov 0 acc
+ not

nice syntax too, true runs +, false runs -
Post 26 Nov 2016, 16:18
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
28th November 2016

- revisit our old question, what is real?

- the thing that nearest to us, that we do almost every conscious moment, is "thinking" and probably "reasoning"

- this is a non stop loop process, for normal conscious human,

- idk what actually happened inside the mind of those who are senile, crazy, psychotic etc, maybe, thinking too,

- i link thinking to processing information bits, chunks or etc,

- we are non-stop "human" that keep on processing, keep on judging, decision making,

- allow factors to influence the path,

- we keep on processing, and as long as you could keep on processing, receiving pain, enjoying pleasures, defragmenting memories, etc, we are alive,

- it could be on earth, inside hospital icu, heaven or hell or etc places you deem exists, we are alive

- we just need to process and keep on processing
Post 28 Nov 2016, 13:54
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ford



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 102
ford
Quote:

- the thing that nearest to us, that we do almost every conscious moment, is "thinking" and probably "reasoning"

I would disagree with this. Consciousness is the experience of subconscious processes most of the time. Very few thoughts that we have are directed by ourselves. Second, the entire point of certain types of meditation is expressly to STOP thinking.

Quote:

- we keep on processing, and as long as you could keep on processing, receiving pain, enjoying pleasures, defragmenting memories, etc, we are alive,

As noted, we disagree on thinking/processing. Pain, enjoyment, pleasure are subjective interpretations and experiences of activity. It isn't a requirement that you respond to them or even acknowledge them. They are not indicators of life. Your indicator of being alive is that you can witness/interpret anything at all. You do not have to think, process, or any other such thing. It is enough to be and to experience that being. Try to just sit. I promise that it is possible to simply sit without thought, without emotion, without anything like it at all. It is possible to be in the moment, be the moment, and still be Smile
Post 29 Nov 2016, 01:47
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
i "think", subconscious equal anything that execute without "thinking" and "reasoning", so any others which are not subconscious equal to conscious,

eg. throwing a dice is "subconscious" but the initial intention, which the expectation to have resulted dice number is "conscious" imo

meditation is a very "speculative" word, probably because this word was never explained and defined thoroughly by those who got those experiences, in fact, i am struggling to understand what actually is "meditation" i have a few experiences not much,

eg. people sitting for hours, not sure what really going on in the mind of those meditators, and some said hours feel like minutes,

i equal your witness/interpret as thinking/reasoning/processing,

ford wrote:
I promise that it is possible to simply sit without thought, without emotion, without anything like it at all. It is possible to be in the moment, be the moment, and still be

sleeping? Wink
Post 30 Nov 2016, 12:24
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ford



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 102
ford
Not sleeping. In meditating, I have achieved a state of complete non-thought a few times. The mind doesn't wonder or focus. There is simply no thought.

Meditation is a practice of calmly bringing all of one's attention to a singular thing, allowing no other thought, and over time training the mind to obey conscious intent. In doing this, the practitioner may gain the ability to control one's self when not meditating, and potentially gain the ability to be ego-less.

As regards what is conscious and unconscious. I still disagree. The conscious is IMO the experience of the subconscious except for where there is a needed effort by the front of the brain: responding to pain, pleasure, hunger, etc... Sentience is what I would describe as the ability to observe unwilling thoughts and control the conscious.
Post 30 Nov 2016, 19:49
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kerr



Joined: 24 Feb 2016
Posts: 150
kerr
I think there is no fear and insecurity, to accept the cruel and cold reality, the most important thing when you fall into a dream, you happen to have no relationship with you! You are living in your dream, a narrow space, enjoy the darkness, enjoying no sunlight, no deceit and guile!
Post 01 Dec 2016, 03:23
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
ford wrote:

I have achieved a state of complete non-thought a few times.

i am very interested with your experiences, i think most people could have non-thought for a split second after closing their eyes, then the next moments, every thoughts run wild

ford wrote:

Meditation is a practice of calmly bringing all of one's attention to a singular thing, allowing no other thought, and over time training the mind to obey conscious intent.

what is this "singular thing"?

when you said allowing no other thought, do you imply you exert some sort of control over what going on in your mind, eg, turn off the "no other thoughts" when they arise and when you aware about them?

you said about obey conscious intent, could you describe how in the state of mind equal to obey conscious intent?

eg. you set up a initial "intent" before meditation, and all thoughts shall be turn off except those abide to initial intent?

ford wrote:

the ability to control one's self when not meditating, ... to be ego-less

this is very vague actually,

Quote:
Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively. Eighteenth-century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think (reason) from the ability to feel (sentience).

i equal sentience as thinking / reasoning / pondering deeper

and i suggest, a conscious thought, after several repetition, loop, could eventually became subconscious thought path, one could probably say, meditation is a process to allow a conscious thought become a subconscious conscious thought
Post 01 Dec 2016, 10:36
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ford



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 102
ford
The singular thing could be your breathing. It could be to watch a candle flame. Whatever you choose as your object of meditation. I personally prefer breath because I always have it.

By allowing no other thought, I am saying that as soon as you realize you are thinking about something other than your object of meditation, you bring your thoughts back to your object of meditation.

Conscious intent is when you are deliberately choosing to think about something rather than the thought arising from the subconscious. By training the mind to obey, I am saying that all thought eventually becomes deliberate and the subconsciously spawned thoughts simply do not arise.

The goal to eventually become ego-less is to say that after the mastery of the mind one chooses to become non-egocentric.
Post 02 Dec 2016, 06:12
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
thanks for the clarification, so singular thing is "anything" that we choose as object of meditation, could i understand it as, "anything" that we choose to focus?

ford wrote:

By allowing no other thought, I am saying that as soon as you realize you are thinking about something other than your object of meditation, you bring your thoughts back to your object of meditation.

1. does focus, or bring thoughts back equal "thinking"?

2. what the difference between "bringing one attention to", "thinking", "meditation" and "focus"?

ford wrote:

Conscious intent is when you are deliberately choosing to think about something rather than the thought arising from the subconscious.

1. how about continue the "thinking" of subconscious arising thoughts?
eg. in a split second of no thought, several thoughts arise, somehow, one thought, imagination, fantasy caught our attention and we subconsciously "proceed" that one thought

2. ego
Psychoanalysis
the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity.

are you saying ego-less equal to cease the "i"?
Post 02 Dec 2016, 17:37
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
09th November 2016

- the moment i close my eyes, this moment is exactly the same, just like one thousand years ago, just like 2000 years ago, exactly like 10,000 years ago
Post 09 Dec 2016, 14:44
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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MHajduk
sleepsleep wrote:
09th November 2016

- the moment i close my eyes, this moment is exactly the same, just like one thousand years ago, just like 2000 years ago, exactly like 10,000 years ago
Seems that you really have got a Time Vehicle because today is 9th December. Wink So, you have gone back to 9th November to fix everything bad that has occured in your life recently, I guess? Razz
Post 09 Dec 2016, 16:19
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
MHajduk wrote:
sleepsleep wrote:
09th November 2016

- the moment i close my eyes, this moment is exactly the same, just like one thousand years ago, just like 2000 years ago, exactly like 10,000 years ago
Seems that you really have got a Time Vehicle because today is 9th December. Wink So, you have gone back to 9th November to fix everything bad that has occured in your life recently, I guess? Razz

Well, for someone who apparently has been to the Neolithic and back, going back just one month is like going for a walk in the park. Cool
Post 09 Dec 2016, 20:58
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
sleepsleep wrote:
09th November 2016

- the moment i close my eyes, this moment is exactly the same, just like one thousand years ago, just like 2000 years ago, exactly like 10,000 years ago
The line is so philosophical and poetic. I like it!

Wink
Post 10 Dec 2016, 03:42
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
MHajduk wrote:
Seems that you really have got a Time Vehicle because today is 9th December. Wink So, you have gone back to 9th November to fix everything bad that has occured in your life recently, I guess? Razz


just notice the November thing, everything so fast and i was left behind, Embarassed
how many November a person could celebrate in his/her whole lifetime, not much,

ManOfSteel wrote:
Well, for someone who apparently has been to the Neolithic and back, going back just one month is like going for a walk in the park. Cool

Embarassed

glad to see you here Smile

YONG wrote:
The line is so philosophical and poetic. I like it!
Wink


Embarassed Smile
somehow that thought crosses me, the moment of closing eyes just the same, seeing all the dark, pixelated moving light particles, trapped on earth for years, everything seem changed, but the sun still here, moon still here, in a grander view, not much changes
Post 10 Dec 2016, 04:17
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
11th December 2016

- somehow i thought about this "meditation" earlier morning today

- according to define:meditation google
Quote:
med·i·ta·tion
noun
noun: meditation

the action or practice of meditating.

med·i·tate
verb
gerund or present participle: meditating

think deeply or focus one's mind for a period of time, in silence or with the aid of chanting, for religious or spiritual purposes or as a method of relaxation.


wikipedia wrote:

Meditation is a practice where an individual trains the mind or induces a mode of consciousness, either to realize some benefit or for the mind to simply acknowledge its content without becoming identified with that content,[1] or as an end in itself.


wikipedia wrote:
The term meditation refers to a broad variety of practices that includes techniques designed to promote relaxation, build internal energy or life force (qi, ki, prana, etc.) and develop compassion,[3] love, patience, generosity, and forgiveness.


allow me to give "meditation" a new definition Wink

- we human eat (input), think (process), action (output)

- food is our energy source, process consume energy, eventually we get tired and must sleep / rest to recharge or process those food / raw materials before we could use them

- please hear me, meditation could be a "process" to recycle/conserve/holding "energy" inside our physical body, so at the moment when almost every functions is still, our conscious could direct energy into wherever section inside our body at our conscious desire

- in another term, if one meditate, he could probably no need to consume "more food/input" because all energy are recycling inside his/her physical body, prevent leakage/unnecessary actions through his meditation

- meditation could probably be called, physical body energy management

- so the idea one is still during meditation because one is trying to balance every energy, be still like water, so one probably could stay awake the whole week without sleep because no usage and lack of energy detected, the person who meditate keep on finding the way to cycle his/her energy inside physical body,
Post 11 Dec 2016, 11:36
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Furs



Joined: 04 Mar 2016
Posts: 1471
Furs
ford wrote:
The same is true of any "simulated" universe. It's just theoretical bullshit. For anything that matters, the universe we have is the universe we get. It's all we have.
Sorry but believing the universe is not simulated is much more bullshit, in fact I'd even say arrogant. Why arrogant? Because it makes us (humans) be the first ones to invent simulation, which is quite absurd. That's like saying the Universe was born when humans started existing.

Let me put it another way. We've already invented simulations, so we know what they are capable of. Simulations "look" like reality and "feel" like reality (in terms of physics)... but they are not reality. They are not made up of atoms, for instance, but of vertices in space, polygons, and other 3D stuff we use in our simulations.

For an entity inside our simulations, however, it will all appear very real indeed, and it will be their universe. We'll soon be able to put AIs in there so we'll likely witness our own existence as a simulation of "lower" quality (obviously, any simulation must be constrained within the real universe above it which makes simpler, since processing power for the specific universe is limited)

The universe outside ours must "look" and be similar to ours most likely, but be completely different on the quantum scales etc I'm sure. There is a "God", the guy who invented this whole thing, and in fact he is even omnipotent/omniscient.

But as you know, just because he *can* know everything doesn't mean he does. Assume you run a program you created. You can know every single bit in existence at any point by freezing it in a debugger or whatever. That makes you omniscient of your program, even if you don't know everything all at once, you have the potential to know everything. When the program is frozen, of course nothing inside of it will move. The entities in the simulation won't even know the program got frozen.


Why do I believe this is much more likely and less theoretical bullshit? Even quantum mechanics gives you clues. Why so much stuff in there depends on observation bias? (like wavefunction collapse) Because the "engine" behind the simulation does not process stuff "in realtime" if they are not observed by something in the simulation. All the randomness in it is hidden variables on top of "calculation roundoff errors". It is also quantized, which makes sense given that a simulation requires it to be finite/quantized.

Just like a video game engine, stuff that is not visible is not rendered. It doesn't mean all of it is stored in memory necessarily, atoms could be procedurally generated. It is still calculated, of course, but its "render" position (i.e observation) is calculated by mathematical equations, not as a realtime system (i.e non-stop derivative calculations). Unless obviously you look at it constantly.

It's also likely that the programmer (god) who made this simulation is also in a simulated world himself to begin with.



You know what would be hilarious, though? If we were all inside a simulation virtual reality. That is, like the Matrix. What I spoke of previously is not like the Matrix. It's different. It is about us being completely made up of the simulated universe: even our thoughts are AI within the simulation etc.

The Matrix on the other hand is different. We/our thoughts are from the outside of it and we "enter" the simulation. Imagine if this is just a game then.

Once you enter the game you lose all memories of the outside world until you quit the game (i.e die), and time spent in the game is trivial compared to the outside world. Don't ask me how, of course an outside Universe would have all sorts of different technology and physics. So it's like a 5min outside your entire life here.
Post 11 Dec 2016, 17:03
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
A pre-millennium movie has already explored such possibilities.

The Thirteenth Floor (1999)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Floor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOSJbkhKvgQ

Wink
Post 12 Dec 2016, 08:07
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