flat assembler
Message board for the users of flat assembler.

Index > Heap > how to create an application

Goto page 1, 2  Next
Author
Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8903
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
i am hoping for answers, is there any way to develop application easily, creatively, simple?

if everything is symbol, why not we just use symbols to program? in a more creative way, like game?

linking 2 trains together, transport the data from station a to station b, then a virtual landscape for us to play around, plant trees, make it beautiful, and everything realtime.

i think that is the goal for future programming language.

a realtime game, we can put station with win32 api, we can set rules in station what api we can get, the user interface can be decorated as towns, so if we need 5 interface, we just create 5 towns,

it will then be everlasting game that more and more people coming in, doing parallel programming, all realtime!!

i think by that time, open source will be a different science!!
Post 01 May 2012, 13:27
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
bzdashek



Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 147
Location: Tolstokvashino, Russia
bzdashek
Hallelujah!!!
Post 01 May 2012, 15:28
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Enko



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Mar del Plata
Enko
For gamedev, there's an app called GameBuilder or GameMaker that has this kind of aproach. You don't write code, but rather link objects with events.
Post 02 May 2012, 04:09
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
Location: 0x77760000
typedef
^^Yeah but keep in mind that GameMaker has a script engine too, which uses underlying code to convert the script to code.
Post 02 May 2012, 07:08
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Picnic



Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: behind the arc
Picnic
^^And quite powerful, resembles flash actionscript language.

sleepsleep wrote:
i am hoping for answers, is there any way to develop application easily, creatively, simple?

sleepsleep take a look at Processing, a fun to use cross platform programming language to create images, animations, 3D stuff, games, comes with dozens of libraries and a simple editor. ps. It needs the java platform installed.
Post 02 May 2012, 07:37
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8903
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
thanks picnic for the link Wink

i am thinking future programming is like playing game, multi users, concurrent, play to make the system more powerful instead of competing.

so, you log in the future IDE, then all is live, u earn $$ or honor by producing better ideas, tricks, (all live & concurrent) everybody can see, u got ur own virtual landscape,

error is impossible, it is like all drag and drog, underlying is like doing subway train design, you can look at it, but if u don't want, people can help u do the subway route.

a system that running 24x7, a different world, where nobody deal with code anymore, people deal with gaming like symbol, mechanism, concept.

of course, the basic of it, is still 1001, but i think we should produce easier way for everybody, you just need to have ideas, logic, then u can program, no syntax,

just link them all, then you get application.
Post 02 May 2012, 16:15
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
Location: 0x77760000
typedef
^^In order to achieve such technology someone would have to code all of that into a machine. Wink

Therefore it's impossible to abandon the code. After all, if the machines needed to be updated they'd have to be coded again.

I'm pretty sure coding those machines would be a high paying job.

Also, syntax implies order / rules (not conventions) and computers / machines are ordered.

No order = Chaos
Post 02 May 2012, 20:36
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
for me, fasmw is like a game. i really enjoy the time i spend playing with code onto.
programming is a game for people who love it. other just see a boring fashion.
Post 02 May 2012, 20:40
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
bzdashek



Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 147
Location: Tolstokvashino, Russia
bzdashek
There will be those, that will perform against the whole system, they would try to poison and destroy the environment that others built.
Post 02 May 2012, 20:41
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
Location: 0x77760000
typedef
bzdashek wrote:
There will be those, that will perform against the whole system, they would try to poison and destroy the environment that others built.


Damn right there's always someone who burns the bridges that others built. Everywhere and every time.
Post 02 May 2012, 20:45
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
typedef wrote:
bzdashek wrote:
There will be those, that will perform against the whole system, they would try to poison and destroy the environment that others built.


Damn right there's always someone who burns the bridges that others built. Everywhere and every time.

and this same guy will cry when you'll come back and burn his house with family inside. what a stupid and illogical world we live in...
Post 02 May 2012, 21:18
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1409
Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
Probably, no need to burn the house.
Simply send him to the island where other criminals are living - they are all men, right?
He'll have some fun too!
New Australia!
Post 03 May 2012, 15:57
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
in fact, depends on how he broke my dear bridge, and why.

if it is really intentional, just to be annoying for everybody, including me, i will try probably ask to my friend "fire" to help me for the acknoledgement expedition.
Post 03 May 2012, 21:53
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8903
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
i still keep on thinking about this,
how to create & design an application?

year 2013 require the following:
- web based (able to view input display) through browser
- must be pretty and look professional
- must be easy to create (the process from idea to output)
- must be stable and easy to debug
- must be fun & easy to build, should demand creativity & logic, and nothing else.
Post 19 Jan 2013, 11:43
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
uart777



Joined: 17 Jan 2012
Posts: 369
uart777
I design programs with office/document software (example: Publisher 2003, SmartDraw) by drawing rectangles, gradients, images, text, etc, then implement them in code.

Image
Image
Image

sleep: Thanks for the motivation to create this hierarchy. I think modern programmers today write code that is completely illogical and ass-backwards and languages like C#/Java encourage writing ineffecient code that uses a class with methods to represent the simpliest most primitive data types (example: RGB, POINT, etc). If only they would learn how to use AND/OR: &|. Programmers need help with design of their code/libraries. How can they make advanced programming software when they haven't even mastered the basics?

With FASM macros, I have designed a mini HL compiler that I like better than C++/C#/Java. Check this out:
Code:
; HL ASM... (Z77)

try [p]=allocate 64*KB

; ASM...

push 65536
call !allocate
mov [p], eax
test eax, eax
jz .!

// C/C++ equivelant...

if (!(p=(unsigned char *)malloc(65536))) {
  return 0;
}     
Post 20 Jan 2013, 11:06
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8903
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
it seems nice, viewing from mobile opera is difficult, will review it when i on desktop,

Just wanna share 1 discovery idea, maybe will somehow cause your brain to start flowing with more ideas,

Ok, listen up =)
Programming should be like using lego bricks and build everything that are in your mind,

Programming languages are like differents kind of tools, bricks, sand, paper, it is important, but less important compare to ideas, creativity,

See how easy kids learn how to put things into shape using lego bricks,

Programming should be like that, we need fasm bricks, it must be simple, fun, pretty, expandable, you dont need manual to use lego bricks and build castle, truck, home, table, etc.

We imagine what we want to build, and we stick bricks accordingly, get what colors we want and wolla, its done!

Remember you always try to get the biggest green base, u got huge structure to build? =)

So, we got 3D in lego building, x,y,z

So, assume we must got 3D in program building, not the 3D dimension things, but the core of x,y,z in programming, what are them?

There should be no variable naming,

We get what we want and stick them,

And each bricks must be as basic as they could and able to get connected.

it should start by having a base, plain base, that waiting u to fill in any imagination,

I know, it sounds like visual basic 6, but something is wrong there,

We dont deal with code in lego building,
We stick it into final object.

Now i think bout tetris,

Maybe u would say, lego output is static non-functional object, well, i agree,

But there should be something we could gain from this understanding,.
Post 20 Jan 2013, 12:39
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1409
Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
LEGO concept is too simple to apply to programming.
Programming will be never like that, because it has a lot of abstract concept(s).
LEGO has no abstract at all. LEGO is simple physics and very visual.
If you see 4 pins on some surface - you can easily extend that surface with some block
having 4 holes - just scan blocks and you will see it, maybe few of such blocks.
Programming will be never like that.
And variables will have to be always named.
I am working on OO Assembler for quite some time.
Not easy. At All.
I want to make it easy to use (like LEGO).
Not happening for now.
But the idea is awesome, of course.
I want to make it like C++, but throw out the non-essential:

- no protection (private, protected, friends, etc.)
- no multiple inheritance
- no templates
- no overloading
Post 20 Jan 2013, 15:44
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8903
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
hi AsmGuru62,
i agree with what you mentioned, but nothing is impossible,

and the idea of OO assembler is great! looking forward.

AsmGuru62 wrote:

Programming will be never like that.

i mean yes, but it is our goal to make it as simple as possible,

imagine a VB6 kinda tool that output ASM code, that gonna blow every mind out there!

i was thinking the following,
ajax fueled vbscript/jscript HTA application
every data request, set through calling ajax to php script file that access to database

of course, every human could view your code just by open it with notepad Laughing and you can hide them inside flash action script, callable through vb/js

maybe people are given too much choice that in the end, everything become too and over complex? maybe..;

uart777 wrote:
I think modern programmers today write code that is completely illogical and ass-backwards

you know, i agree with you, i think days gone by, less and less sanity in our 7 billions.
btw, nice screenshots there, that is awesome you built them by your own-self!
Post 20 Jan 2013, 23:54
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
uart777



Joined: 17 Jan 2012
Posts: 369
uart777
Quote:
"imagine a VB6 kinda tool that output ASM code, that gonna blow every mind out there!"
- Who hasn't thought of this? We're working on visual utilities to simplify programming. It just takes time and it's a process. Before we can do this, we need the following:

1. Language: An easy HL language that converts to Universal ASM for any CPU. We can start with Intel, ARM and Java-enabled CPUs
2. Library: All essentials predefined: memory, file, text, image, font, etc. Portable to any OS. Start with BIOS/standalone, Windoze, Linux and MenuetOS (I like this one), then we can talk about Android, IOS, X360, PS3
3. Interface: Custom GUI and controls
4. Visual Utilities
5. Voice/Speech commands. Example: Say "draw image" then enter image name and coordinates

Most programmers have not made it past steps 1 or 2 Neutral

Here's a detailed version of the hierarchy that begins with MACHINE (Universal ASM), LANGUAGE and BIOS. All files depend on the previous ones in an elegant, incremental fashion. FONT requires IMAGE which requires DRAW, BOX, COLOR, FILE, TEXT, etc. We must establish a solid foundation (language/library) upon which to build programs.

Image

PS: May I suggest a forum to submit "Examples"?
Post 21 Jan 2013, 05:18
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KevinN



Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 161
KevinN
http://worrydream.com/LearnableProgramming/

What bout this? Maybe extend something like this into visual representations down to and for more raw computer architecture?

Maybe a c ide with compiler with fasm as backend..and have way to see C to fasm conversion as you write the code (side by side? And so i guess itd be compiling as you go? Lol) Maybe uart, you can do this for the z77? Just throwing around some ideas..

Maybe iconographic watermarks for registers etc like syntax highlighting, frame by frame visual representations of procedures of hw and/or os parts
Post 21 Jan 2013, 08:32
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page 1, 2  Next

< Last Thread | Next Thread >
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Copyright © 1999-2020, Tomasz Grysztar. Also on YouTube, Twitter.

Website powered by rwasa.