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Coty 01 Mar 2012, 15:17
Sadly I did not, I'm waiting to start my new job before I spend my money on any non-necessities (even quite smoking... mostly).
I can't wait to crack them open though, I'd like to port my OS to them, (both A and B units). They are such neat little boards! Would be awesome to put them in an Atari 800xl / 600xl case! So, What do you guys want, unit A or B? Probably B right? ($10 more for Ethernet and an extra USB port so that you could use a keyboard AND a mouse?  ) |
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01 Mar 2012, 15:17 |
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malpolud 01 Mar 2012, 17:10
Cool price, but AFAIR ARM11?
I was considering buying the Beagle Board, but I think for now playing with an emulator is fine for me. |
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01 Mar 2012, 17:10 |
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Dex4u 01 Mar 2012, 20:53
I went right though all the stages to buy one, but did not buy it.
I think this is a very bad project  .
Its like, am i the only one that can see 'the emperor has no clothes'. The aim of the project are good, but the method is so wrong. What the PI gives you, is no different than any bootable linux cd gives you. But that not has bad as being closed hardware and using a chip made by broadcom. This will not teach kids nothing, the Arduino is a 1000 time better. They had one chance to get it right and they blow it, its just like the one laptop per child. I know someone who works for broadcom and know alot about this project, he told me in as many words, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PUT ANY OTHER OS ON IT They do not seem to understand how to make kids want to code, there idea is that kids these days will not want to code on something that does not give very high res, 3d sh*t. That's rubbish, yes some kids are like that, but they will never code anyway. What you need is to restrict the hardware and then say to kids push it to its limit. That why the 512b compo worked, because we did not say code anything, anysize. We said see what you can code in 512bytes. I am not saying you go back to 20 years, but something like "darkbasic" with inline assembly, that bootable would have been fine, along with open hardware. At the end of the day it a cheap linux board. |
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01 Mar 2012, 20:53 |
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malpolud 02 Mar 2012, 09:49
Dex4u wrote:
Are you sure? How did they achieve it? |
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02 Mar 2012, 09:49 |
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Coty 02 Mar 2012, 14:25
^ Yeah, everything I've read about it states otherwise. It seems to me it boots from SD card slot only(?), and the Fedora OS that is supposed to run on it is on an SD...
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02 Mar 2012, 14:25 |
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Dex4u 02 Mar 2012, 23:38
Here are some problems:
First binary blob to get to the GPU, you will need to get any useful info from linux and reverse engineer it . Debugging, normal you would have simple com port (does not have any), they may be just hidden ?. Input, you will need to code usb drivers. Its just not very good for OS Dev, just wait 3-4 months and you will see similar boards that will be as cheap and more open, then buy one. If you think your os dev life will be good, with a Broadcom GPU, go ahead. NOTE: When i said other OS's, i meant OS's make by the little people, not m$ etc. Here a example of how hard it would be for a none Broadcom employee. Quote:
http://www.iconbar.com/articles/Newsround/index1271.html |
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02 Mar 2012, 23:38 |
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shoorick 03 Mar 2012, 05:48
let's wait until PI become $3.14
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03 Mar 2012, 05:48 |
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malpolud 03 Mar 2012, 11:08
Well how should device developers use Broadcoms chips if the manufacturer keeps the documentation secret???
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03 Mar 2012, 11:08 |
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Dex4u 03 Mar 2012, 20:38
malpolud wrote: Well how should device developers use Broadcoms chips if the manufacturer keeps the documentation secret??? They have something called a "binary blob" that sits in between the os and the GPU. You maybe able to interface with that, but i would not be surprised they have some form of obstacle, as anti reverse engineering. |
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03 Mar 2012, 20:38 |
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malpolud 04 Mar 2012, 08:25
First of all: you don't need the GPU to communicate with OS. So if problems related with GPU documentation are true,for me this isn't a disadvantage.
Secondly: Normally "binary blob" refers to some closed source drivers - If the vendor provides such closed source drivers for the GPU communication than nothing is wrong and actually this doesn't affect any attempts to run software on this dev board. I don't want to start a new topic, but since we are talking about dev boards I have a question: Some of you use dev boards at work, have you used Embest DevKit 8000? Would you suggest buying the original BB or just save a few cents and go for DK8000? |
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04 Mar 2012, 08:25 |
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tom tobias 05 Mar 2012, 14:30
malpolud wrote: I don't want to start a new topic, but since we are talking about dev boards I have a question: Maybe, a related question...maybe also off topic? Are there any other products out there, using ARM, which include conventional, properly documented components, so that one can make, or adapt, any operating system?  |
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05 Mar 2012, 14:30 |
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malpolud 05 Mar 2012, 16:28
There are many. Basically you want to choose a dev board supplied with a processor with MMU - mostly Cortex-A. I was planning on buying the BeagleBoard but I found it's copy - DevKit8000 and just bought used one.
For some testing purposes check out Qemu - a processor emulator - it can emulate complete dev kits like the BB. Right now I'm struggling to get it all work together. |
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05 Mar 2012, 16:28 |
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Alphonso 05 Mar 2012, 17:20
Maybe we will see a MachOS installed and the system called "Apple Pi".
Hate to think of the following 'registered trademark' claims and slogans such as "as American as Apple Pi".  |
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05 Mar 2012, 17:20 |
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Dex4u 05 Mar 2012, 20:35
tom tobias wrote:
Yes there are many, i myself have semi ported DexOS to this device http://www.friendlyarm.net/products/mini2440 Theres a cool OS that make dev very simple http://code.google.com/p/startos/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTvWTj6NwBg With that board you even get NoOS examples with the board. I am only trying to help, as i have been there and done it, its hard enough with out having no info. Last edited by Dex4u on 08 Mar 2012, 18:46; edited 1 time in total |
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05 Mar 2012, 20:35 |
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malpolud 06 Mar 2012, 16:54
I just received my package with DK8000. It appears to be barely used, still got the preinstalled Linux, I wish I could stretch a day to 40 hours - I could start having fun with it today.
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06 Mar 2012, 16:54 |
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tom tobias 08 Mar 2012, 12:21
Thank you both, very interesting, and useful!!!
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08 Mar 2012, 12:21 |
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pabloreda 09 Mar 2012, 12:01
more about Raspberry PI in comp.lang.forth
https://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.forth/browse_thread/thread/a2c6de180e843480 same discusion about huge proprietory blob |
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09 Mar 2012, 12:01 |
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revolution 09 Mar 2012, 20:53
Unfortunately this is a common thing with GPUs. The manufacturers seem to have got together and agreed to keep all the details secret from the public. Then the public have to rely upon the manufacturers to provide the binary code to make use the GPU. This affects all systems that use GPUs, and is not just related to the ARM embedded GPUs.
So generally only if you use Linux or Windows then you can use the GPU since many of the binary blobs are designed for those environments. But if you want to have your own OS then you are mostly shut out from using the GPU unless you are prepared to set up a operating environment similar to Linux or Windows. Either that or you have mega-thousands of hours available to spend reversing the binary blob to figure out what is happening. The current situation with secretive GPU information is not good but the public seem happy to accept it. Or maybe the public just don't care as long as the latest game will run without crashing? |
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09 Mar 2012, 20:53 |
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Dex4u 09 Mar 2012, 22:05
revolution wrote: Unfortunately this is a common thing with GPUs. The manufacturers seem to have got together and agreed to keep all the details secret from the public. Then the public have to rely upon the manufacturers to provide the binary code to make use the GPU. This affects all systems that use GPUs, and is not just related to the ARM embedded GPUs. I agree with you revolution on all your points, but it seem even worst that normal in this case, as GPU seem implemented in the boot process and even things like USB and Ethernet use GPU for timing. |
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09 Mar 2012, 22:05 |
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