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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4238
Location: 2018
edfed
you can't run asm code on any proprietary hardware, that's a fact. you cannot compile any windows source, because of the same reason you cannot execute asm code on your motorola razr, and you cannot load a program in any Ithing without submitting to apple. because it is simply blocked. blocking systems are the only way for language like java to continue to exists.

the portability question have a sense only here, where you have a complettely closed hardware, you will need to use the only allowed way to do without breaking the security. and this way seems to be the "sun/oracle/google" way.
if you look well, there is always a trinity in suprematic systems
. computers(intel/microsoft/ibm), food(macdonalds/monsanto/cocacola), economy(newyork/london/tellaviv), operating systems(windows/mac/linux)...etc.

it don't means that others aren't possible, just means that there is a serious lack of immagination and freedom. 3 parts only are allowed in any domain.
Post 28 Jan 2012, 13:19
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
Microsoft is the common factor lol
Post 28 Jan 2012, 17:43
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cvtss2sd



Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 48
cvtss2sd
edfed wrote:
you can't run asm code on any proprietary hardware, that's a fact. you cannot compile any windows source, because of the same reason you cannot execute asm code on your motorola razr, and you cannot load a program in any Ithing without submitting to apple. because it is simply blocked. blocking systems are the only way for language like java to continue to exists.

the portability question have a sense only here, where you have a complettely closed hardware, you will need to use the only allowed way to do without breaking the security. and this way seems to be the "sun/oracle/google" way.
if you look well, there is always a trinity in suprematic systems
. computers(intel/microsoft/ibm), food(macdonalds/monsanto/cocacola), economy(newyork/london/tellaviv), operating systems(windows/mac/linux)...etc.

it don't means that others aren't possible, just means that there is a serious lack of immagination and freedom. 3 parts only are allowed in any domain.


(I find it interesting that your 3rd examples in each group are the most legitimate, but that's for another discussion.) Indeed that is the fact. But, people say the same of linux: it's weakness is that next to noone uses it so hardware support is bad. Is it the user's fault? No. Is it a limitation? Yes. Is it failing to do something that something else can? Yes.
Post 28 Jan 2012, 18:18
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4238
Location: 2018
edfed
Very Happy i want one like this:
Image

http://www.digikey.com/product-highlights/us/en/texas-instruments-pandaboard/686#tabs-2
and then, try to code something like a gui os. assuming hardware documentation is complete and free for this piece of power.

but 182$ is a bit expensive just to initiate to arm programming. but it seem's really powerfull. is there a very low cost arm dev platform with integrated lcd touchscreen and memory? that is not a android phone?
hem... does the android phones lets the user replace the whole system with anything else?

beagleboard looks pretty cool too.

@revolution:
what about developping a board dedicated to fasmarm coding.
ideally, fork fasm to a true arm source code, and why not, implement a simple os, with a fasmw like ide? i'd like it!
Post 29 Jan 2012, 23:32
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cvtss2sd



Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 48
cvtss2sd
edfed wrote:
Very Happy i want one like this:
Image

http://www.digikey.com/product-highlights/us/en/texas-instruments-pandaboard/686#tabs-2
and then, try to code something like a gui os. assuming hardware documentation is complete and free for this piece of power.

but 182$ is a bit expensive just to initiate to arm programming. but it seem's really powerfull. is there a very low cost arm dev platform with integrated lcd touchscreen and memory? that is not a android phone?
hem... does the android phones lets the user replace the whole system with anything else?

beagleboard looks pretty cool too.

@revolution:
what about developping a board dedicated to fasmarm coding.
ideally, fork fasm to a true arm source code, and why not, implement a simple os, with a fasmw like ide? i'd like it!


Don't forget spruce boards (Unofficial ARM arduinos [i got a forked spruce]).
Post 30 Jan 2012, 00:23
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17287
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revolution
edfed wrote:
is there a very low cost arm dev platform with integrated lcd touchscreen and memory? that is not a android phone?
I know of two (there are others also, do a search):
http://www.logicpd.com/products/
https://www.gumstix.com/store/index.php

I am not affiliated with either of these companies
edfed wrote:
@revolution:
what about developping a board dedicated to fasmarm coding.
ideally, fork fasm to a true arm source code, and why not, implement a simple os, with a fasmw like ide? i'd like it!
I could but is there a large enough market for it? These things take time, effort and investment; none of which I have spare right now Sad
Post 30 Jan 2012, 00:36
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
revolution wrote:
edfed wrote:
is there a very low cost arm dev platform with integrated lcd touchscreen and memory? that is not a android phone?
I know of two (there are others also, do a search):
http://www.logicpd.com/products/
https://www.gumstix.com/store/index.php

I am not affiliated with either of these companies
edfed wrote:
@revolution:
what about developping a board dedicated to fasmarm coding.
ideally, fork fasm to a true arm source code, and why not, implement a simple os, with a fasmw like ide? i'd like it!
I could but is there a large enough market for it? These things take time, effort and investment; none of which I have spare right now Sad


I could help out $-wise if anybody else would too ?
Post 30 Jan 2012, 02:53
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4238
Location: 2018
edfed
that's would be pretty cool.
there are many ways to contribute to a project.
money, or work, or both.

for my part, if we decide together to design and build a sort of arm assembly dev platform, i'd like to contribute by work like code, electronic design and documentation, and why not latter by assembling boards in order to sell them (theorical fund return to investor). for the money part i canno't help so much but am a little independant. designing a GHz board is somehow not a cheap task, it needs very clean professional boards, otherwise it just don't works at all.

an arm asm dev platform should have a ready usb boot capability, a vga connector, a lcd+touchscreen port, an ide port (for compact flash and ide drives), an ethernet port, some high speed serial and parralel ports, ps/2 ports (or usb) for mouse/keyboard, a simple operating system prewriten in flash rom, and of course a lot of ram.

there are still many boards like this, maybe we can start with existing one, question is, wich one to choose? it should be the more complete as possible, but very cheap. and the vga connector is really an essential part in order to have a real computer, a touchscreen lcd is just an application thing, not enough for development useage.

dex4u, what about the arm dev board you proposed two years ago?
Post 30 Jan 2012, 08:04
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
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malpolud
Here comes Qemu

Guys, developing another board form arm is pointless.
Post 30 Jan 2012, 11:04
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
then, why don't design a new architecture? as we code in asm here we have many more ideas about a assembly oriented programming platform than any of these "abstraction" oriented programmers.

because i don't know if you realize it, but OOP is like a... hem. i don't have more to say. just an other way to do the same thing than any other programming technique. just it is a fashion now, you SHOULD make OOP, because the majority adopted it, and you know how much clever is the majority... like a potatoe, a banana... even a single dead bacteria is smarter than the majority...and just wait a little for the new fashion, java will then disapear like it appeared.

and believe me, it would be better if we are the authors of the next fashion, than just be the victims.
Post 30 Jan 2012, 17:37
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
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malpolud
I dont really understand how you reached the conclusion about OOP. Knowing and using HLLs makes me worse than a pure assembly programmer? Sorry but I'm not 15 any more, and I'm not gonna argue which one is better.

Actually ARMs architecture and assembler is not designed for asm programmers but for C compilers. There is no point arguing about that.

ARM was firstly invented for microcontrollers. Over the time it appeared that the most expensive part of the design is the code, not the hardware. There were created powerful uC's with memory management units, that could run a real OS - UNIX was quickly ported to the new architecture. It happened cause in some cases it was easier to write and maintain an application controlled by an OS.

Maybe it's ARM that is fashionable? Why should you start learning to program ARMs - you can clearly see, that for a couple of months every lame child knows what ARM is. It's clearly a fashion Wink
Post 30 Jan 2012, 18:17
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4238
Location: 2018
edfed
in fact, i am just really bored by java, sorry for the boring troll.

but it starts to become clear the more i use it... it's really really hard to code in java, for a frustrating result. and some eclipse functionalities don't help at all. Sad

assembly is not hard to think, what is hard is to code it, generally, no huge assembly code can run well the first compile, and no jobs are 100% assembly in my country.


should i change country to find a job?
Post 30 Jan 2012, 18:55
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
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Location: Broken hippocampus
malpolud
Don't know where are you from, but I think that knowing a couple of HLL's is essential if you want to get a job. I love asm too but HLL's are essential. Stop thinking about HLL's as about a retarded tool - people made them to make things easier - just see the advantages Wink

good luck with your job searching.
Post 30 Jan 2012, 19:17
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
Yea man. I make money off JAVA too.

I do other student's homeworks and I get paid. lol
Post 31 Jan 2012, 01:18
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
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JohnFound
Well, I changed my employer a little and I can write assembly at work.
Actually I use only assembly for PC programming and I have several big assembly projects running in this moment. Razz
Post 31 Jan 2012, 05:22
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17287
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revolution
malpolud wrote:
Guys, developing another board form arm is pointless.
You might be right about that.

http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OMAP3_Boards

With such a selection finding one to suit budget and needs might be possible.

And don't forget the Raspberry Pi.
Post 31 Jan 2012, 10:21
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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TmX
edfed wrote:
in fact, i am just really bored by java, sorry for the boring troll.


try scala/clojure Wink
Post 31 Jan 2012, 10:26
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cvtss2sd



Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 48
cvtss2sd
People need to stop using better hardware as an excuse to bloat the computer. You just end up spending more money for a project that you could've done more work (optimizing) with at a lower fiscal cost. It'll take longer, but you won't see as much missing from your wallet. The gaming industry is learning this the hard way right now (actually, it's hitting them but they're not learning yet [Well, Bethesda is on the PS3]).
Post 31 Jan 2012, 11:04
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Tomasz Grysztar



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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Tomasz Grysztar
TmX wrote:
try scala/clojure Wink
Clojure, definitely! LISP is great. Smile
Post 31 Jan 2012, 14:42
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
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malpolud
cvtss2sd I wouldn't agree with you. Have you seen the curves describing software developing costs and hardware buy costs? Hardware cost is decreasing since 70s (new technologies), software cost is increasing over the years (more complex needs and better programmers that can use better hardware).
Post 31 Jan 2012, 14:55
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