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Coty



Joined: 17 May 2010
Posts: 546
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Coty
What I don't like about Christian religion is religious people shoving stuff up everyone's asses. After all God said:

Revelations 22:11 wrote:
Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."


Yet, constantly are people told how to live there lives and are terorised to follow God. Sad

I was going to read your pdf for a laugh or two until I read the introduction, I'll read it when my mind is more clear, I've had a long week... I need a good cigar...

khatch... Thank you for reminding me to take the wood from my eye, before pointing out the sand in my brothers eye, I need to be reminded of that every now and then Wink
Post 25 Dec 2011, 03:07
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khatch



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 68
khatch
Hello!
Well; I think you must read forward the next verse:
(Rev 22:12 BBE) See, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give to every man the outcome of his works.

So the question is:
Is God tell us to do wrong things and then he judging us ? Question Exclamation
Well . OF COURSE NOT
then what he meant ?! Question Exclamation
as you go reading forward :
(Rev 22:16 BBE) I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give witness to you of these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star.

(Rev 22:17 BBE) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him who gives ear, say, Come. And let him who is in need come; and let everyone desiring it take of the water of life freely.

Because the GOD JESUS CHRIST was enable us to choose between two roads ( goodness or evil) and advising us by his HOLY SPIRIT "Come" and "And let him {everyone of us} who is in need come; and let everyone desiring it take of the water of life freely{as a free gift}."

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Post 25 Dec 2011, 03:55
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Coty



Joined: 17 May 2010
Posts: 546
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Coty
Hi khatch....

khatch wrote:
Hello!
Well; I think you must read forward the next verse:
(Rev 22:12 BBE) See, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give to every man the outcome of his works.

Yes, he rewards us for helping others in need, others lost looking for the way, most focus to much on the reward and not on the prior verse, if someone chooses not to follow God, we should not make it our job to change there mind, but if someone is seeking the way, it is rewarding that we help them...
Post 26 Dec 2011, 02:04
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
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typedef
I am lost, please help me.
Post 26 Dec 2011, 04:15
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khatch



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 68
khatch
Hello!
Coty wrote:
Hi khatch....

Yes, he rewards us for helping others in need, others lost looking for the way, most focus to much on the reward and not on the prior verse, if someone chooses not to follow God, we should not make it our job to change there mind, but if someone is seeking the way, it is rewarding that we help them...


Well ,Well.
the problem with the dear Muslim humans is NOT to follow God BUT it is in :They killing us (the Christians and others) because the false thinking that they doing God's pleasure( in the name of Allah).
(Joh 16:2 BBE) They will put you out of the Synagogues: yes, the time is coming when whoever puts you to death will have the belief that he is doing God's pleasure.
So what I am meaning is to do our jobs in enlighten other people with the Gospel :
(Mar 16:15 BBE) And he said to them, Go into all the world, and give the good news to everyone.

(Mar 16:16 BBE) He who has faith and is given baptism will get salvation; but he who has not faith will be judged.

Again ;who knows?
Maybe they came to Christ from terrorism of Muhammad like what happened in the past with Saul ( who after that became Paul) :
(Acts chapter 9)

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 12:38
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khatch



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 68
khatch
Hi!
typedef wrote:
I am lost, please help me.

Well.
I can not understand what you mean ?
Can you explain it more ,please ? Smile

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 12:43
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khatch



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 68
khatch
Hello!
I want to share with all of you a true story was happened in the Arabic middle-east ( and maybe some of us got lessons Smile ) and this story about Lebanon :
Lebanon was an Arabic country in the middle-east had a half of his population people of the Christians after his Independence from France .It becomes the greatest Arabic middle-east countries (even before Kuwait and others) because of his Christians people who was worked hard for building it. Cool

Quote:
Before the Lebanese Civil War (1975 AD –1990 AD), the country experienced a period of relative calm and prosperity, driven by tourism, agriculture, and banking. Because of its financial power and diversity, Lebanon was known in its heyday as the "Switzerland of the East". It attracted large numbers of tourists, such that the capital Beirut was referred to as "Paris of the Middle East." At the end of the war, there were extensive efforts to revive the economy and rebuild national infrastructure.

from : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanon
cited this quote and accepted by me because I am speaking Arabic very well. Wink
BUT
They made a big mistake by not taking attention from the Islamic religion terrorism so then began the Lebanese Civil War (from 1975 AD until 1990 AD) between its components( Christians and Muslims) because the Islamic Sharia told in the Qur'an (MUST NOT being the Muslim under any kinds of Christian government ( or Jews) .
and after that many Christians ran out of Lebanon and NOW it is looks like any country of the third world with destroyed economy and contains Islamic terrorists . Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Question Question Question Exclamation Question

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Post 26 Dec 2011, 16:37
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
khatch wrote:
I am speaking Arabic very well. Wink
Cool. Cool I hope you realize how great advantage it is. Wink Such people like you could be those who might explain us, "The Westerners", what is exactly going on there, in the people's minds. Seems that you're excellently well informed in the Middle-Eastern internal affairs, a real political maze. Wink
Post 26 Dec 2011, 17:19
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khatch



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 68
khatch
Hi!
I am glad to hear that Smile
BUT
the problem is that:
"The Westerners" must NOT stop on the explanation 'what is going there in the Middle-East' BUT take the lessons for their countries (in Europe and America) to do NOT repeat the same mistake (taking attention on the economic and MONEY and FORGOTTEN to take a big attention on Islamic Danger came inside its lands Cool

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Post 27 Dec 2011, 11:31
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
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JohnFound
IMHO, the "Islamic danger" is a product of the west colonial politic since the crusades. In the former USSR there was no "Islamic danger" until it falls down and became an Euro-centric capitalist country. After then the "Islamic danger" exploded instantly!
Post 27 Dec 2011, 12:26
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
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MHajduk
khatch wrote:
the problem is that:
"The Westerners" must NOT stop on the explanation 'what is going there in the Middle-East' BUT take the lessons for their countries (in Europe and America) to do NOT repeat the same mistake (taking attention on the economic and MONEY and FORGOTTEN to take a big attention on Islamic Danger came inside its lands Cool
Despite of all unfortunate news upcoming constantly to my mind from various sources I still hope that people of different beliefs can live together sharing the best things they can create.

Some examples from the past convince me that such a symbiosis is possible - during the reign of Akbar the Great, the greatest Mughal Emperor of India who was known even here, in Europe, as a tolerant and wise king, Indian kingdom reached the peak of economic power mainly due to the maximal possible consolidation of the Indian society that was (and still is) a true ethnic and religious mosaic.
Post 27 Dec 2011, 12:48
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khatch



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 68
khatch
Well;You are wrong about thought "Islamic danger" because "Islamic danger began early in the beginning of the Islam religion (in fact began by Muhammad the prophet of Islam by killing all other people who did NOT believe that he is messenger of Allah by his 'Ghazw' and after he died his friends and his 'Caliphs' continued his "Islamic danger" by occupy North Africa's countries and the Byzantine Empire and Iran and big parts of Asia and Spain ( the called it Al-Andalus between 711 AD and 1492 AD) and attacked many times on Europe in the past (even before crusades ) ;please look "Battle of Tours" 732 AD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours
and the Crusades occurred between 1095 AD and 1291 AD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
) Evil or Very Mad

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Post 27 Dec 2011, 14:49
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khatch



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
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khatch
Hi!
MHajduk wrote:
Despite of all unfortunate news upcoming constantly to my mind from various sources I still hope that people of different beliefs can live together sharing the best things they can create.

Some examples from the past convince me that such a symbiosis is possible - during the reign of Akbar the Great, the greatest Mughal Emperor of India who was known even here, in Europe, as a tolerant and wise king, Indian kingdom reached the peak of economic power mainly due to the maximal possible consolidation of the Indian society that was (and still is) a true ethnic and religious mosaic.


Embarassed I think you seriously miss your point (I am talking in love like friends ;please do NOT be angry Wink
According to wikipedia I found these reasons:

1) He was Mughal Emperor. so he is NOT an Indian person .
2) He was of Timurid descent. so he was a occupier.
3)
Quote:
During the early years of his reign, he showed intolerant attitude towards Hindus and other religions, but later exercised tolerance towards non-Islamic faiths by rolling back some of the strict sharia laws
. Because of his Islamic Sharia forced all Muslims to persecution the other religions believers but
Quote:
later exercised tolerance towards non-Islamic faiths by rolling back some of the strict sharia laws
because he invented another religion "Din-i-Ilahi" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Din-i-Ilahi
Quote:
The Dīn-i Ilāhī (Persian: دین الهی "Divine Faith")[1][2] was a syncretic religious doctrine propounded by the Mughal emperor Jalālu d-Dīn Muḥammad Akbar ("Akbar the Great"), who ruled the Indian subcontinent from 1556 to 1605, intending to merge the best elements of the religions of his empire, and thereby reconcile the differences that divided his subjects.[2] The elements were primarily drawn from Islam and Hinduism, but some others were also taken from Christianity, Jainism and Zoroastrianism.
;
SO HE WAS NOT AN EXAMPLE OF GOOD MUSLIM .
4) Did you know that : the India (IS NOT STILL) a true ethnic and religious mosaic. Because it divided to two countries ( India for non-Muslims and Pakistan for Muslims and there was many wars between them until now) and later Pakistan divided to ( Pakistan for Muslims and Bangladesh for Muslims too Exclamation )
FINALLY I advise to to studying the India and Pakistan and Bangladesh to understand what the 'Islamic danger' can divided Countries and Nations .
Wink

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Post 27 Dec 2011, 16:05
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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MHajduk
My main goal was to show an epoch and a country where existed a harmonized society consisting of people of diametrically different beliefs.
khatch wrote:
1) He was Mughal Emperor. so he is NOT an Indian person .
2) He was of Timurid descent. so he was a occupier.
He was an Indian person in the same degree as Shahrukh Khan (a famous Indian actor) who is a Muslim of Pashtun descent, so I think that rather you missed your point. Wink
khatch wrote:

SO HE WAS NOT AN EXAMPLE OF GOOD MUSLIM .
He was in the same degree as you are a good Christian who wants all people living in peace (however you're not a good example of a "crusader", so in Medieval Ages you may be seen as a heretic person Razz). Wink
khatch wrote:
4) Did you know that : the India (IS NOT STILL) a true ethnic and religious mosaic. Because it divided to two countries ( India for non-Muslims and Pakistan for Muslims and there was many wars between them until now) and later Pakistan divided to ( Pakistan for Muslims and Bangladesh for Muslims too Exclamation )
FINALLY I advise to to studying the India and Pakistan and Bangladesh to understand what the 'Islamic danger' can divided Countries and Nations .
Wink
I am a bit interested in history and culture of that area and perfectly know that there, in India, live many people who are not only Hinduists but also Muslims, Christans, Sikhs, Zoroastrians and others. Wink

Statistics (2001): Hindu 80.46%, Muslim 13.43%, Christian 2.34%

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_India#Statistics

Smile
Post 27 Dec 2011, 16:29
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khatch



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 68
khatch
Hello!
MHajduk wrote:
My main goal was to show an epoch and a country where existed a harmonized society consisting of people of diametrically different beliefs.

Well your goal is good but the truth it does NOT work with the Islam religion
Quote:
And fight them on until there is no tumult or oppression, and there
prevail justice and faith in Alla …’
Qur'an Surah Al Baqara
(2:193)

Quote:
He was an Indian person in the same degree as Shahrukh Khan (a famous Indian actor) who is a Muslim of Pashtun descent, so I think that rather you missed your point. Wink

well;
1) Shahrukh Khan is an actor in India like other actors there.
2) Akbar the Great is a governor on the NORTH INDIA came from Timurid descent (from the militant conqueror Timur (Tamerlane) in the 14th century who occupied many countries in Asia andHis most illustrious descendant Babur founded the Islamic Mughal Empire and ruled over most of Afghanistan and North India.).

Quote:
as you are a good Christian who wants all people living in peace

well, then read what Jesus Christ said:
(Mat 5:9 BBE) Happy are the peacemakers: for they will be named sons of God.

AND I am NOT making another religion by making the peace
Quote:
the peacemakers

In the other side Akbar the Great made his religion "Din-i-Ilahi" because he ever never can govern people by the Islam Sharia because it is full of hatred and destroy .



Quote:
in India, live many people who are not only Hinduists but also Muslims, Christans, Sikhs, Zoroastrians and others.

I think you must see the full picture of historical Big India (India and Pakistan and Bangladesh ) :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Pakistan#Community_issues
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_India#Conflicts

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Post 27 Dec 2011, 18:41
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
any religion, idea that trying to force people to be, to live like them is evil..

ur christ1an is not doing any better than the evil 1slam.
Post 27 Dec 2011, 19:03
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
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tom tobias
sleepsleep wrote:
any religion, idea that trying to force people to be, to live like them is evil..

Thank you sleep sleep, well written.

One problem, though, in all this deep thought, is this dilemma:
How does society compel those with "mental deficiency" to live?
--free to roam about on their own (in conformance with sleepsleep's idea that it is evil to compel people to behave in a particular fashion.)
--restricted to a particular compound, then free to roam, within that compound;
--restricted to a particular compound, AND drugged, to render them compliant, and facilitate treatment/feeding/hygiene.

This is not an easy problem to resolve....

MHajduk wrote:
My main goal was to show an epoch and a country where existed a harmonized society consisting of people of diametrically different beliefs.

I like it!!

Very lovely. Also deeply romantic. I can almost hear the music of Brahms or Dvorak in the background as you say these words. Very nice.

However, on my visit to India, I am sorry to say, that I saw violence at every street corner.
I would be listening to Schoenberg's Gurrelieder....

khatch wrote:
Did you know that : the India (IS NOT STILL) a true ethnic and religious mosaic. Because it divided to two countries ( India for non-Muslims and Pakistan for Muslims and there was many wars between them until now) and later Pakistan divided to ( Pakistan for Muslims and Bangladesh for Muslims too )

Hello khatch!!!

many thanks for your interesting comments, some of which may be completely accurate, but this one, is unfortunately, not.
India is filled with all kinds of people, including lots of Muslims, Hindus, and, as MHajduk explained, varieties of other folks.

typedef wrote:
I am lost, please help me.

To quote revolution, have you obeyed rule #1: RTFM ???

I suggest starting at the very first verse, of the very first chapter, of the very first gospel:
Mark 1:1.
The key point here, is this: You must examine the three different versions of Mark 1:1, if you wish to comprehend what is going on here.
This is a bit like trying to determine whether or not one is programming an AMD 64, or an Intel 64...

Here it is in Codex Sinaiticus:

http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=34&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0
Quote:

1:1 αρχη του ευαγγελιου ιυ χυ
You observe that little IU XU at the end of the line: That's an acronym, which, we are supposed to believe, represents the name, Jesus Christ. Missing of course, is the index to the op codes, which confirms that the abbreviations represent what we imagine they represent....

b.)This is from Codex Vaticanus: here you see his name, spelled out.
Quote:

Ἀρχὴ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου Ἰησου Χριστοῦ.

c.) here is the Byzantine version (majority text), with "son of God", explicitly declared, for those of us, who have trouble with undefined declarations
Quote:
αρχη του ευαγγελιου ιησου χριστου υιου του θεου


Then, now, yes, you are no longer confused!!!
For, now, at last, you have the answer....

yes, now you know the truth.
There is no single version of "the bible". Not only is it impossible to answer, rationally, questions about Christianity, it is also possible to fabricate anything one wishes, and find support for such a myth in the four gospels.

I think that summarizes fairly succinctly, khatch's point:
khatch wrote:
So what I am meaning is to do our jobs in enlighten other people with the Gospel :


I definitely feel enlightened, now that I have unloaded that burden of the contradiction of Mark 1:1. I can breathe a lot easier, with that off my chest.

Smile
Post 27 Dec 2011, 19:56
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 6034
Location: Poland
MHajduk
tom tobias wrote:
MHajduk wrote:
My main goal was to show an epoch and a country where existed a harmonized society consisting of people of diametrically different beliefs.

I like it!!

Very lovely. Also deeply romantic. I can almost hear the music of Brahms or Dvorak in the background as you say these words. Very nice.

However, on my visit to India, I am sorry to say, that I saw violence at every street corner.
I would be listening to Schoenberg's Gurrelieder....
Your musical metaphors inspired me to listen to some excerpts from the Arnold Schoenberg's "Gurrelieder" and I think I have fully got what you mean. Wink Thanks for your comment. Smile
Post 27 Dec 2011, 20:38
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khatch



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
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khatch
Halleluiah+
1)
tom tobias wrote:


Here it is in Codex Sinaiticus:

http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=34&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0
Quote:

1:1 αρχη του ευαγγελιου ιυ χυ
You observe that little IU XU at the end of the line: That's an acronym, which, we are supposed to believe, represents the name, Jesus Christ. Missing of course, is the index to the op codes, which confirms that the abbreviations represent what we imagine they represent....


Smile

Well,Then I advise you to looking at:
[url] http://codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=34&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0 [/url]
carefully ,;And explain to us :Why these two words had a line above each one except other words ? Question
Well i will tell you why .
Because it called
Quote:
Nomina sacra

So ,look at
[url] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomina_sacra [/url]
for more of it (Nomina sacra) and note that NOT all "New Testament Greek manuscripts containing Nomina Sacra " had Nomina sacra Wink

2)
Quote:
it is also possible to fabricate anything one wishes, and find support for such a myth in the four gospels.

Well,Well Very Happy
Why you forgot the other New Testament books(Acts,Paul's letters,James's letter,Peter's letters,John's letters,and Revelation) ? Question
In addition:
Why you forgot the Old Testament (Moses books,Joshua.Judges,Ruth,....Other prophets....etc) ?
And look (in the same URL) to Mark 1:2,3

Quote:
2 καθωϲ γεγραπται εν τω ηϲαϊα τω προφητη ϊδου εγω αποϲτελω τον αγγελον μου προ προϲωπου ϲου οϲ καταϲκευαϲει την οδον ϲου
3 φωνη βοωντοϲ ε τη ερημω ετοιμαϲατε την οδον κυ ευθιαϲ ποιειτε ταϲ τριβουϲ αυτου


Quote:
εν τω ηϲαϊα τω προφητη
which is (exactly in the meaning ):"in Isaiah the prophet" (Isa 40:3 BBE) A voice of one crying, Make ready in the waste land the way of the Lord, make level in the lowland a highway for our God."
So my point is : You can NOT making any myth because of all references and prophecies about Jesus Christ int the Holy Bible ( the Holy Old Testament and the Holy New Testament) . Very Happy Laughing

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Post 28 Dec 2011, 16:50
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MHajduk



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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MHajduk
@khatch

Ad. point 2.

I think you can't just prove the correctness of the source basing only on this source itself. It's a vicious circle. Wink
Post 28 Dec 2011, 18:06
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