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emc



Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 90
Location: France
emc
"When I grow up, I would like to make CPUs and become a researcher"

Hence my question: Do I need a Ph.D to design CPUs? Shocked

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Post 06 Oct 2011, 19:53
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
generally, to be able to do somebody's job, you should aquire his experience and his knowledge, and of course have the capacity to do it.

knowledge and capacity are validated by the grade certificate.
and for the experience, you will need to practice.

best way to acquire the experience of a CPU designer is to study in some college, and work in some companies or laboratories during your studes, for free (en faisant un stage). then, you will have the grade, the knowledge, and the experience to design CPU.
Post 06 Oct 2011, 20:22
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emc



Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 90
Location: France
emc
hum ok, so now I have to hard work the SI (Sciences de l'Ingénieur, [Sciences of Engineer] au lycée [end of secondary education]) because I am not able to understand a basic 8-bit ALU (last test, bad mark) and PNP/NPN transistors...

I hope I shall increase my Physics results, the road is still long Smile
Post 06 Oct 2011, 21:31
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
Location: 0x77760000
typedef
emc wrote:
"When I grow up, I would like to make CPUs and become a researcher"

Hence my question: Do I need a Ph.D to design CPUs? Shocked

Not really. you can teach yourself stuff you know Wink
Post 06 Oct 2011, 23:06
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Tyler



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 1216
Location: NC, USA
Tyler
typedef wrote:
Not really. you can teach yourself stuff you know Wink
How many people get hired off of knowledge alone? Not many, I presume. You need the little piece of paper, regardless of how little it actually means. Razz
Post 07 Oct 2011, 00:26
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 2913
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typedef
Tyler wrote:
typedef wrote:
Not really. you can teach yourself stuff you know Wink
How many people get hired off of knowledge alone? Not many, I presume. You need the little piece of paper, regardless of how little it actually means. Razz


Yeah for certification purposes...

But look at Steve Jobs (R.I.P to the amercian genius). He started building the Mac in a garage...without a Ph.D, despite the fact that he was majoring in calligraphy Wink Today the industry is now more focused on quality and yes that is what people and companies need and thus they require some sort of certification just to prove that you know the stuff.

Certification doesn't mean shit still because you can forge it and pretend you know the stuff.

Exclamation The real "Ph.D" is you Wink
Post 07 Oct 2011, 01:29
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emc



Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 90
Location: France
emc
The way of the Autodidact Smile

I think the Ph.D is required to be hired by a firm like Intel or IBM and do research to design CPUs of the future (e.g.: the photonic CPU, 50G by Intel; experiments with graphen at IBM...)
I would like to do things like that (it's very very ambitious, maybe too ambitious). I must need a lot of knowledge about classic/quantum Physics and Maths of course.

typedef wrote:
He started building the Mac in a garage...without a Ph.D

Unfortunately, I have not enough money to buy a photolithography machine (do you give money to me to buy it, typedef? I know you are rich Very Happy )
In despite, I have a logics circuits simulator (Proteus ISIS).
Post 07 Oct 2011, 15:27
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Stephen



Joined: 13 Aug 2011
Posts: 30
Stephen
You can do some of it with software simulation. After that check around the net. There have been a bunch of cpu's built with 74*** logic chips. There have been lots more built with FPGA's. A mix of the 3 is what you might want to do as a prototype, even if you are going to etch a chip.

If you really want to get down to it, a bunch of us stupid people used relays to do that in the old days.

To get a job you realistically need a piece of paper or a piece of hardware. For the really big places the paper carries more weight, for a small place a history of working hardware carries more weight. Having both doesn't hurt...

Android = Arm cpu, I pad/phone/ect = Arm, Huge number of robots and machinery = pic, avr or lots of others.
Post 08 Oct 2011, 06:16
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malpolud



Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 344
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malpolud
emc wrote:
The way of the Autodidact Smile

I think the Ph.D is required to be hired by a firm like Intel or IBM and do research to design CPUs of the future (e.g.: the photonic CPU, 50G by Intel; experiments with graphen at IBM...)
I would like to do things like that (it's very very ambitious, maybe too ambitious). I must need a lot of knowledge about classic/quantum Physics and Maths of course.


Man if you don't know what you need, don't try to be a clairvoyant or ask on the message board. Go to their page and search for it, call them. Anything. You must learn how to gain knowledge if you want to be a scientist Smile


emc wrote:
Unfortunately, I have not enough money to buy a photolithography machine (do you give money to me to buy it, typedef? I know you are rich Very Happy )
In despite, I have a logics circuits simulator (Proteus ISIS).


In fact nowadays you don't need anything but hard work to be an expert in any field. Internet, books (from college library e. g.) and hard work is all you need. Check out this dude and what he says:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcWRc1wK3gM

btw. Maths is essential in any engineering field. The more you know about it, the better. Don't say that anything you want to learn may be to ambitious. One more time - check Carmack out Wink

About Ph. D. I don't know how it looks like in your country but in mine generally speaking it's far better to find a job in a good company than trying to get a Ph. D. after college (in most cases - not all). You gain much more experience by working in a good company. I think it's widespread in world cause our engineers are quite good ones.

Cheers and good luck!
Post 08 Oct 2011, 11:15
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
PhD = Poor Hair Distribution or Baldness
Post 08 Oct 2011, 19:41
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emc



Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 90
Location: France
emc
Ok, thanks for replies

Now, I'll try to hard work the "Sciences of Engineer" (a discipline of secondary education in France about logics circuits, transistors, sequential logic etc.) and I'll look for some informations about researchers' skills required to be hired by Intel, AMD... (dreaming? Very Happy)

Actually, Intel France are looking for a HPC Research Scientist :

Intel France wrote:

Qualifications

Advanced degree (preferably Ph.D.) in applied mathematics, physical sciences, biology (with demonstrated computational competence at a level typical of the physical sciences), computer sciences, or equivalent experience demonstrated through publications, presentations, patents, awards, etc.


Now I know that I have to do... hard work, studies, hard work, studies... And do some fun things with logics gates Very Happy
Post 09 Oct 2011, 15:17
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
Actually one of the point of being a PhD is doing research.
So if you really want to researches on CPU design, why don't get a PhD?

Wink
Post 09 Oct 2011, 15:44
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Teehee



Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 568
Location: Brazil
Teehee
there is a software where i can design and simulate a CPU?
Post 09 Oct 2011, 16:35
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
Teehee wrote:
there is a software where i can design and simulate a CPU?


yes, you can use VHDL/Verilog simulators...
Post 09 Oct 2011, 16:52
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emc



Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Posts: 90
Location: France
emc
TmX wrote:
So if you really want to researches on CPU design, why don't get a PhD?


I'm too young yet to answer to that question... This year I have to take a decision about my post-secondary education and I am hesitant, I'll see after that.
Post 09 Oct 2011, 17:19
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Teehee



Joined: 05 Aug 2009
Posts: 568
Location: Brazil
Teehee
TmX wrote:
Teehee wrote:
there is a software where i can design and simulate a CPU?


yes, you can use VHDL/Verilog simulators...

can you give a download link of a good free tool?

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Post 09 Oct 2011, 19:00
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cod3b453



Joined: 25 Aug 2004
Posts: 619
cod3b453
Short answer: No.

Long answer:

I work for a fairly large company that designs processors and we have people with a range of qualifications up to PhD. Obviously, a "good" degree is preferred but the bigger issue is do you know the stuff and can you talk about it confidently*. In general, people with PhDs are sought after for the future technology roles, this is less about day-to-day design/implementation/testing and more about what it will be in 5-10+ years time and involves a lot more research and development (and takes as long as a PhD).

So, it depends what you'd like to do exactly; and, as someone who got a degree, although I knew I wanted to work in software, I found my ideas about what I wanted to do changed while I was doing it.


*As it happens, I got my job (C/C++ software engineer) because of the word "assembly" on my CV which meant in the first year I took over the processors with instructions sets Laughing
Post 09 Oct 2011, 23:53
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Stephen



Joined: 13 Aug 2011
Posts: 30
Stephen
Teehee wrote:
there is a software where i can design and simulate a CPU?


More or less. Lots of cpu's have been designed in fpga's and there are a bunch of free simulators for fpga's. It's not quite the same as chip design software, but close. It doesn't get into the low level stuff, but lets you build a cpu with logic gates. A ruff equivalent to making a cpu with 74*** chips. As apposed to a simulator that simulates building it in the actual silicon.
Post 10 Oct 2011, 05:20
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
Teehee wrote:

can you give a download link of a good free tool?


Sure.
GHDL
Icarus Verilog
ISE WebPack (Warning: this is a huge download, but it's pretty comprehensive)
Post 11 Oct 2011, 06:18
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Matrix



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 1171
Location: Overflow
Matrix
emc wrote:
"When I grow up, I would like to make CPUs and become a researcher"

Hence my question: Do I need a Ph.D to design CPUs? Shocked


no, just do it dude
then walk in AMD with your CPU plans, if its spectacular you're highered.
Post 03 Nov 2011, 15:16
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