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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
typedef wrote:
Quote:

Do you think he/she could be prejudiced (for or) against asm?

FYI, I'm not discriminating here. But with the theories I see here I can happily label people as being evolutionists.


what is the opposite of evolusionist?

seems you are a fervent enemy of evolution theories... but without stating darwin theories, i can say that we have the same common basis as any animal on the planet.
that any bacteria share the same type of element as us.
that a human come from a spermatozoid + ovule.
that a monkey come from the same thing, and any animal on the planet come from something like this.

even plants have reproduction argan.
and this reproduction will always induce a little mutation, sometimes, mutations are viable, and then, they will propagate because it brings a better resistance, and sometimes, the mutation are not viable, like a black butterfly on a white tree will be more easy to casch, the white butter fly on white tree will survive more surelly.

as assembly programming, the dna programming is a succesion of layers.
physical (silicon junctions), electrical (voltages, currents), digital (0, 1, and, or, etc...), informational (var=123, name db "myna meis",0, etc...), conceptual (panels, buttons, tables, pages, menus), etc...

the life is something like this, in fact, asm is something like life. based of our observation of the world.

the fact is, if a book should contain animals by categories, we are in the monkeys category.

fact is, many animal families can become intelligent as us.
many of them like rats (they have hands), spiders (the are hands), cats (they can use their paws as hands), they just need many more mutations before to develop our type of intelligence.
if some laboratories starts to do accelerated selection, we can soon have an intelligent animal, able to speak, in some few generations.

cats can reproduce in 1 year, each year, you have a new generation.
rats are faster.
if you select the rats for their intelligence, and hability, you will engender more intelligent rats. it is faster with rats.


but if you concider the human intelligence is just ONE aspect of our life, it means others animakls have others centers of interrests.
what human does the more is:

speak
think
handle

tree elementary actions that leads to our society.
but from an animal point of view, we just do that, speak, handle. they don't see we are thinking.

from our point of view, animals are shouting, and eating all the day, some of them are just playing.

monkeys are just climbing trees, we are just walking streets. everything is in our mind.
Post 25 Aug 2011, 23:48
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
typedef wrote:
this all boils down to evolution vs creation. And I'm always for creation.


Well, it is normal and logical - it is known that americans are mostly religious people and the religion and logic are incompatible. So, on the issues that religion contradicts with logic, the americans probably will choose religion.

Quote:
For example(and yes I gave this example earlier), because a duck looks like a chicken therefore shall we conclude that the duck is a chicken, or the duck evolved from the chicken?.


This example only show that you simply don't understand what evolution theory says, even in it's basis. The duck and the chicken are both birds - so the duck does not evolved from chicken, neither chicken evolved from the duck. They simply have common predecessor that was not chicken and not duck, but some other type of bird.
In the same way humans are not evolved from grate apes - they are simply more or less close relatives - something like a distant cousins. They all evolved from some common predecessor and it was not exactly gorilla and not exactly orangutan and not exactly homo, but it was some kind of ape.
You have to know, that evolution theory, like any other true science theory is not finished - there are many issues that need research and revealing. Only the religion can claim that it knows the absolute true.
Post 26 Aug 2011, 06:24
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
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JohnFound
edfed, you think (or only write) a little bit over-simplified. There are many aspects of the evolution theory that are still not very clear. There are proofs and observations that the evolution sometimes can flow very fast - there are observations how the new species arise only for several generations. But the scientists still don't know why and how this happens. The nature have it's own "ideas" what is evolutionary good and what is bad. The scientists still have big way to go in order to reveal all these dependencies. Of course if the evolution goes in fast jumps and then big pauses - it will be very hard to be studied, simply because it will be hard to be watched.
Post 26 Aug 2011, 06:38
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
JohnFound wrote:
... it is known that americans are mostly religious people ...
This statement is far too generalized. Many US members on this forum are free thinkers; they are logical and rational; they support their arguments with VERIFIABLE evidence. tom tobias and bitRAKE are two perfect exemplifiers.

Wink
Post 26 Aug 2011, 12:55
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
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AsmGuru62
Actually, that statement seems proper. The majority of americans ARE in fact religious. The few from this forum can't overshadow others from USA.
Post 26 Aug 2011, 13:02
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
AsmGuru62 wrote:
Actually, that statement seems proper. The majority of americans ARE in fact religious.
That's why America is in decline! Wink
Post 26 Aug 2011, 13:10
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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asmhack
AsmGuru62 wrote:
Actually, that statement seems proper. The majority of americans ARE in fact religious. The few from this forum can't overshadow others from USA.


If they were religious - then the majority would be Orthodox Christians,
not catholic and protestants.

Tell your fairy tales elsewhere and keep the facts for yourself, ok ?
Post 26 Aug 2011, 14:46
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typedef



Joined: 25 Jul 2010
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typedef
If you are talking to me, I'm not catholic I'm Baptist.

I feel sorry for you guys, really. Sad
Post 26 Aug 2011, 18:52
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
if we are monkeys, so wat... we gonna die after all, so as those monkeys, so what if we are not monkeys, gonna die too.

but at least our intelligence allow us to create another virtual world, if let say one day science & technology able to bridge our brain signals to computer, then that is truly god mode and i am not sure if monkey able to reach such intelligence.

am more concern with, are we been created like bio robot just like we create those electronic robot?

if some "higher intelligence entities" exists, let just put god aside, i mean entity that could physically exists and they created us.

if tracing our ancestor line upwards, my father, my grandpa, my grandpa grandpa, then grand grand grand pa, then grand grand..... pa pa pa,

then maybe only 1 male and 1 female at the start.

or evolution occurs with the same rate to every our ancestor? idk.

maybe we are dumb monkey after all... hahahah Very Happy
Post 26 Aug 2011, 19:14
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asmhack



Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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asmhack
Image

Image
Post 26 Aug 2011, 22:15
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AsmGuru62



Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 1409
Location: Toronto, Canada
AsmGuru62
When I said "religious" - I meant every flavour - as soon as someone says "LORD" - he is blind - IMO. Where in US people who do not believe in any god?.. Even prominent scientific minds are believers in most cases!
Post 26 Aug 2011, 23:20
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JohnFound



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 3500
Location: Bulgaria
JohnFound
There are Americans atheists, but they are minority of 16% (atheists, agnostics and humanist). You can see some charts: Religion in USA
It is strange, that in the chart above (posted by asmhack) 40% of US citizens accepts evolution, but at least 24% of them believe in god??? (the wikipedia article posted by me claims 16% of americans are not believers)
Post 01 Sep 2011, 09:38
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
I don't see why believing in evolution would suggest a non-belief in god?

It all depends upon how you define your god(s). Some people take the approach that god had created the universe at the start (perhaps the big-bang) and then left it "evolve" as god had planned right from the start.

Documents like the Bible tend to disallow this scenario for most people's interpretation, but other documents (e.g. the Quran) apparently can support this scenario.
Post 01 Sep 2011, 11:27
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
in the bible, adam is a 5 meters tall man, and lived something like 200 years...
in the bible, jesus walked on water, etc, etc... it is

coran is different because it speaks about the universe, and claims the woman freedom, it is a scientific and logical approach of god. and god is so powerfull that you can't say his name.

torah here is very different, because it will claim the world heritage of the jews. something like god give the world to humans (jews), as in coran, you cannot say the name of god.

in my religion, god is a dog. human is a monkey, monkey is a rat, rat is a snake, snake is a worm, worm is a bacteria, bacteria is a cell, cell is a cyborg in dragon ball Z. lol, means no religion. but evolution, and design.

a lot of design, we are designed by the nature.
if the life on earth exist since 1 day, our presence on this world is far less than a second. we are nothing.

do you believe you use only 10% of your brain. at a time.
maybe in all our life time, we will use all our brain, but it is just a program.
what is magic with this program is that it creates a conciousness, a feeling and a soul. it's cool.

and what it means is that it is very possible to create an artificial intelligence like our natural intelligence. it means too that it will be possible to clone the artificial intelligence, and then, clone the natural intelligence.

maybe it is leed our humanity to a higher spiritual level, something like a better approach of the global world. including animals, insects, plants, lands.
it will be cool if the technology help animals like it helps us.
the food and the energy is the main problem here.

it is unlimited, but limited by a quanta of time. we cannot pick more than X watts per hour, we need Y watts per hour to survive, and Z watts to expand.

the nature gave our specie the hability to walk.
our body evolved like they said, lucy, ramidus, mr firestone.
exactlly like the body of the lions and tigers evolved, or the dolphin, or the shark, or the snake.. or the gorillas.
everybody evolved like the environment told them to do.

apparentlly, ones upon a time, there were a big forest in africa, with a very big monkey population. with a lot of various species. and crack boom, the earth had a huge geologic movment, the forest was cutted in two separate parts. or maybe many separated parts...

one part of the forest is unmondified, no climatic variation at all.

and then, the part where monkey became human is the part where the environmental condition changed.

that's what i've read in a scientific magazine.

this solution is very logic, because the human intelligence is not a magic thing, it is a natural thing, based on simple rules.
the atom itself is based on basic rules, and maybe everything is based on basic rules. but there are thousand of billions of basic rules...

a good solution about the human evolution is that migration of monkeys made them evolve, but as they were all compatible, and because they all migrated in circle, then mixing the genetics, they are all genetically compatible. we can procreate with every human (of the opposite sex) on the planet. means that human always migrate.
A meets E at 0 and becomes AE
AE live in 0
B son of AE migrate at 1
C son of AE migrate at -1
D daughter of AE rest in 0
Z meets K at 1 and becomes ZK
ZK live in 1
Y son of ZK migrate at 0
X daughter of ZK migrate at 1
X meets B in 1 and becomes XB
XB migrates to 2
M son of XB migrate to 1
N daughter of XB migrate to 3
etc...

then, humans are always compatible, evolution and propagation is smooth.

finally, we are just cells of humanity.
Post 05 Sep 2011, 09:26
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YONG



Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 8000
Location: 22° 15' N | 114° 10' E
YONG
edfed wrote:
in my religion, god is a dog. human is a monkey, monkey is a rat, rat is a snake, snake is a worm, worm is a bacteria, bacteria is a cell, cell is a cyborg in dragon ball Z
Friend, I really enjoy reading your posts - they always make me laugh! Laughing Wink
Post 05 Sep 2011, 09:55
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