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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
is living things that without consciousness and mind some sort of organic robot?

Let say u build some mechanical robots that behaves exactly like a bird and with a bird AI, except it doesn't has blood, it could fly mechanically, sound like actual bird,

so does it makes it a bird?
Post 12 Aug 2011, 12:02
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vid
Verbosity in development


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vid
Depends. Do you consider consciousness a product of material body only, or also something else?
Post 12 Aug 2011, 12:17
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edfed



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edfed
the consciousness is the CPU instruction decoder.
Post 12 Aug 2011, 12:37
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edfed



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edfed
the soul is the circuit, the connection diagram of your entire body.

the spirit is the flux of everything in your body, energy, signals, hormons, etc...? your feelings, your datas.

the analogy with everything is possible.

the eye = main spatial and environmental sensor, for other animals and vegetal species, it can be this or something else. we use it just to see where we are, and what is around us. even a machine can have it.

the ear = main event sensor, the sound is more important than the video in a movie, because the sound is the support of the events, the energy, what happens, boom, crash, splash! and blabla... for any animal or vegetal species, it can be this or something else. even a machine can have it.

the skin = the main contact sensor, used as thermometer, hygrometer, acidometer, the nose and the tongue is the same kind of sensor, but oriented to little particle chemical analisys. plants and animals have it the same or different.

the genital parts = the way to reproduce, and then survive. plants, animals have the same thing, or different. machine can have this too.

the consciousness = the main processor where we always analyse everything from the sensors. the "I am Here Doing That, Wanting That, Needing That" command line. this is the way we think, plants and animals have the same thing, or different. for us, it is the brain, for machine, it can be any automatism. Y=F(X)

the spirit = the main analysis processor, what is directlly linked to the consciousness, but instead of just be brute real time datas, it will also pick datas froms memory, and do analisys, and prediction on. the way we think and resolve problems, our intelligence.
animals and plants have the same, or different, machine can have too.

the soul = the main block diagram, a sort of program, that is what we are, our deep beliefs, our ideas, determining the ratios of every hormonal, chemical, electrical activities in our body, and outside our body too. animals an plants have this, or different, machine can have too.

then, the conclusion is that life, soul, body, etc, is just something natural and simple.

but how it happeared?

15 billions years since the presumed start of universe

5 billions since the solar system start

now, we have something like a 5 billion year of life evolution to recover.

suposing the life is as gravitational force, electronic force, etc... it means that intelligence, human intelligence, is something not really magic, but just a deep feeling in us. the languages made it possible because now, we all have a prompter in our brain that always prints text, that is our consciouness, and it is printed by a program that is our spirit, and the configuration of the program, parameters, ratios, are the soul.

and it is as natural as orbital rotation around a sun.
Post 12 Aug 2011, 13:38
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typedef



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typedef
Living things: Natural(cannot be created by man).

Reproduces,
Moves (some ),
Responds to stimuli (through senses)
Grows

Anything that does not have a natural biological cell is not a living thing.
Post 12 Aug 2011, 18:09
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
vid wrote:

Do you consider consciousness a product of material body only, or also something else?

i see it like this, consciousness for me means the ability to creatively evolve. The result is shown through creative output.

so, maybe we could only consider those "living entities" that able to "creatively evolve" to be those who possess "consciousness".

eg, the way human build house, compare to the way bees or other animals build their nest.

50 years ago, we use method A, then now, we use method Z, totally different.

but animals keep on using the same old way, their nest basically look about the same like 50 years ago.
Post 13 Aug 2011, 17:52
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
typedef wrote:

Living things: Natural(cannot be created by man).

it is not about who created them,
man, god, alien, anunnaki, marduk or whatever whoever that fit.

the main argument is, are these (animal, human?, etc) all just some sort of organic "robot" that [X] created through biology technology?

just like how we use our technology to create those mechanical robot.
Post 13 Aug 2011, 18:06
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Albert Einstein wrote:

It is only to the individual that a soul is given.
Post 13 Aug 2011, 22:30
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edfed



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edfed
what i meant when i told that even machines are living things is just that at a large scale, the machinery (humanity of the machines) is a living thing.

for the moment, it doesn't have control on it's future, and don't decide by itself... hem. machine still decide by itself a lot of things.

our human body is an assembly of many little machines.
then, a mecanical body would be the assembly of many little machines too.

if you take each cell of the human body, you don't see something like consciousness or intelligence. but if you look the entire body, you see intelligence.

and when an animal elaborate a strategy to open a door or catch a target, it means he is intelligent, and if human take a better look to animal activity, he will see that animals too are intelligent, think, feel, love, laugh, cry, etc... but with other symbols and signals.
Post 13 Aug 2011, 22:43
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typedef



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typedef
sleepsleep wrote:

it is not about who created them,


sleepsleep wrote:

the main argument is, are these (animal, human?, etc) all just some sort of organic "robot" that [X] created through biology technology?

just like how we use our technology to create those mechanical robot.


Contradiction ? Shocked

You said it's not about creation but you are talking about creation... WTF Shocked
Post 13 Aug 2011, 22:46
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
edfed wrote:

and when an animal elaborate a strategy to open a door or catch a target, it means he is intelligent, and if human take a better look to animal activity, he will see that animals too are intelligent, think, feel, love, laugh, cry, etc... but with other symbols and signals.

ok, let say, what if, our AI technology come to a phase that we could actually implement those behaviour of a bird into a mechanical bird.
(i assume it is possible for us to reach such phase).

because from what i could see, the consciousness will make that object evolve, eg, bird will build better house, maybe using concrete, then maybe build something that could carry them instead of letting them flying all the time from one point to another point.
Post 13 Aug 2011, 23:22
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
typedef wrote:

You said it's not about creation but you are talking about creation... WTF

maybe i don't understand you well....

typedef wrote:

Anything that does not have a natural biological cell is not a living thing.

ok, so, even the non biological cell "living thing" have exact behaviour like your natural biological living thing?
Post 13 Aug 2011, 23:26
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typedef



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typedef
sleepsleep wrote:
typedef wrote:

You said it's not about creation but you are talking about creation... WTF

maybe i don't understand you well....

typedef wrote:

Anything that does not have a natural biological cell is not a living thing.

ok, so, even the non biological cell "living thing" have exact behavior like your natural biological living thing?

I can make a software roam around my computer and call it a cell(technical)/or a thread. But what if the lights go out ? The computer won't be able to accommodate that "cell". A thread does not eat, does not move physically (and yes some living things do not move), and therefore it's not a natural living thing.

Look at it from a "generic" perspective.
There were no AIs 1000 years ago to say that they are natural living organisms.

I can get you my 9th grade cousin to give you a lecture on this issue, because it looks like you never learned this in school or you cannot use your reasoning capacity enough to come up with a valid (valid meaning it's a fact not an opinion. )


So, get your facts right ! You cannot call an object/subject that cannot adapt to stimuli a natural living thing.
Rolling Eyes
Post 14 Aug 2011, 01:04
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

ok, so, even the non biological cell "living thing" have exact behaviour like your natural biological living thing?

so, even a non biological cell that able to adapt to stimuli and having exact behaviour like a natural biological living thing?
Post 14 Aug 2011, 01:45
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typedef



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typedef
sleepsleep wrote:
Quote:

ok, so, even the non biological cell "living thing" have exact behaviour like your natural biological living thing?

so, even a non biological cell that able to adapt to stimuli and having exact behaviour like a natural biological living thing?


No, that's because it has "assisted living", some one has to setup an environment for it, you don't (even other natural living organisms . For example, take a robot dog. It will wear out if exposed to too much heat. But you, when you feel the heat the first time you'll move to another place. (and yes you can program it also to do that ).

sleepsleep wrote:

having exact behaviour like a natural biological living thing?


We don't have exact behavior. FACT:There's nothing in the world that is behavior-wise equal to humans.

FACT:We are the highest form of life on this earth.
Post 14 Aug 2011, 02:27
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
typedef wrote:

FACT:There's nothing in the world that is behavior-wise equal to humans.

i never use human as example, i said bird, my thread title said (except human)
and i try to suggest living things (with / result of consciousness) must have the ability to creative output and evolve.

i try to suggest animals might be organic robot because they don't have the ability to creative output and evolve.

typedef wrote:

FACT:We are the highest form of life on this earth.

this is what you perceived, where is the reference that what you claimed is a fact?
Post 14 Aug 2011, 09:00
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typedef



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typedef
sleepsleep wrote:

typedef wrote:

FACT:We are the highest form of life on this earth.

this is what you perceived, where is the reference that what you claimed is a fact?


Reference for what ? If it's a fact it is common knowledge. And you need not to ask for reference but evidence.

Talking about evidence or proof, you are the evidence yourself. You are both physical and spiritual, making you the highest form of life. You are so smart that you build complicated machines to make your life easy, and you are so curious that you study other living things' ways of living, which they cannot figure out themselves because they are not as smart as you, they just operate on instincts. Had they been just as smart as humans, they would not have been the same today as they were 1000yrs ago.
Post 14 Aug 2011, 16:15
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

Talking about evidence or proof, you are the evidence yourself. You are both physical and spiritual, making you the highest form of life. You are so smart that you build complicated machines to make your life easy, and you are so curious that you study other living things' ways of living, which they cannot figure out themselves because they are not as smart as you, they just operate on instincts. Had they been just as smart as humans, they would not have been the same today as they were 1000yrs ago.

so, i conclude from what you said, human is highest form of living thing, animals aren't.

and i assumed you agreed with me that animals have lack of attributes that we can assumed they are human like.

and i wish to know if you agree with my view coz i mentioned animals (which don't have consciousness) as some sort of non-mechanical/non-electronic robot that were created, programmed through DNA.
Post 14 Aug 2011, 17:28
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edfed



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edfed
our consciousness that makes us study things and others is just a program, like DNA. but more complex, simply because of the quantity of neuronal connections that is the bigger of the creation we know.

but this is true only if we define our consciousness as an utlimate advanced feature.

but there are many more advanced features in the nature, for example, the hability to don't need evolution in order to survive, meaning that it is still really advanced.

take as example, the ants, they are the same as millions years ago, of course, it can be the proof of a "non inventive intelligence", but what is it really?

don't forget that student humans are just a little part of humanity. very little. compared to the population that doesn't thing anything else than:

work
eat
spend
eat
fuck
eat
drink
eat
etc...
where is the creativity here?
Post 14 Aug 2011, 22:53
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

but there are many more advanced features in the nature, for example, the hability to don't need evolution in order to survive, meaning that it is still really advanced.

hmm,, nice view.

btw, edfed,
ur replied in my other thread
Quote:

i think it can be a very good feeling to be a "non thinking" life form.

somehow make me think of this.

maybe human is roughly about the same like animal except we been given some special quality. (creativity & consciousness)

it could be, our "creator aka programmer" haven't give us the ability to have multiple consciousness, concurrent thinking, ability to store/delete our memory as we wish, sleep, reboot at our chosen timeframe, multiple focus attention capability.

"features" that we already build into our mechanical/robotic machine are possibly "supposed" features that should already built inside our body, just we haven't unlock it. maybe?
Post 15 Aug 2011, 01:14
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