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ctl3d32



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 204
Location: Brazil
ctl3d32
Have you guys seen this? Amazing!!! I want that.

http://www.techamok.com/?pid=9189
Post 02 Aug 2011, 15:48
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BOTOKILLER



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 154
Location: Ukraine
BOTOKILLER
Doesnt looks that amazing
just another technology to entertain lamers Smile

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Post 02 Aug 2011, 16:04
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Enko



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Mar del Plata
Enko
It's the same thing as using lots of vertex. In the now days games, the fiction world is so huge, that simply they can't make lots and lots of detail into every tiny object.
In the example, they made some island with some trees and an elephant..... in 1 year xD Under this rate, to make somthing like Mafia 2 would take an eternity.

And what about the animation? all the atom made object are static.
Post 02 Aug 2011, 16:37
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rain_storm



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Ireland
rain_storm
Saw the first couple of videos some time ago and was very impressed, but in that video he mentions that the next demonstration will have some form of fake ambient occlusion, (not impressive). I think the following video has nothing to fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAsg_xNzhcQ

Realtime global illumination using conetracing into a sparse voxel octree. With realtime updates to the octree allowing dynamic scenes. Octree traversal has reached a stage where it can support voxels to any arbitrary level of detail, also virtually unlimited. So what has unlimited detail got that this hasn't? Only fake illumination.
Post 02 Aug 2011, 17:58
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ctl3d32



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 204
Location: Brazil
ctl3d32
Enko wrote:
It's the same thing as using lots of vertex. In the now days games, the fiction world is so huge, that simply they can't make lots and lots of detail into every tiny object.
In the example, they made some island with some trees and an elephant..... in 1 year xD Under this rate, to make somthing like Mafia 2 would take an eternity.

And what about the animation? all the atom made object are static.


That's not true. You didn't get the point of the presentation. They are building an engine that is completely different from what we have today. They are not trying to group beautiful arch models together. Anyone can model or scan or buy 3d models of objects. To put them together is not a problem at all. The problem is: Show them all in their full detail on screen in real time.
Post 02 Aug 2011, 20:06
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Enko



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Mar del Plata
Enko
Oh no!!! the creepy hand is making nasty shadows!!! Realistic light, but it still looks like what it is, a 3d scene.
Post 02 Aug 2011, 20:08
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rain_storm



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Ireland
rain_storm
And you think the unlimited detail demo looked photo realistic?

The guy who wrote that cone tracing demo is also responsible for this earlier line of work, without global illumination or ambient occlusion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HScYuRhgEJw&feature=related

Similar level of detail

Add in a lighting model which is a closer approximation of real life and the level of detail plummets, but the final image looks better / more convincing.
Post 02 Aug 2011, 20:26
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Enko



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Mar del Plata
Enko
Quote:

And you think the unlimited detail demo looked photo realistic?

no, it looked like graphics from a 2006/2008 3d game.
Post 02 Aug 2011, 20:43
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ctl3d32



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 204
Location: Brazil
ctl3d32
Enko wrote:

no, it looked like graphics from a 2006/2008 3d game.


Then you should buy new glasses for i've never seen that level of detail before.
Maybe Global illumination is their next step towards a complete product.
I hope they upload new videos soon for i'm curious.
Post 02 Aug 2011, 23:13
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 2141
Location: Estonia
Madis731
My ear caught two things:
1) procedural rendering
2) atoms

1) procedural rendering does not have limitations on animation. When everything is algorithmic, it doesn't matter if they compute it at t=0 or t=0.001, they still compute it and whatever the co-ordinates are, they get rendered.
2) Atoms is like Voxels. I don't get the difference. Maybe atoms are round and voxels are cubes.

Add 1+2 together and you get procedural voxel rendering which is real today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8E64m0GAIA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzmsCC6hetM&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_665235
Post 03 Aug 2011, 10:47
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rain_storm



Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Ireland
rain_storm
Here are The Earlier Videos where he gives a basic overview of the system

The difference here is that he is rendering a Point Cloud. He is calling the individual points "atoms". Point Clouds are used only in the engineering world for extremely high resolution CAD.

Traditionally such datasets have been approximated to polygon meshes (Like the Stanford Bunny was) or they can be voxelised. Voxels can be any shape, height map voxels are rectangular cuboids. Cone tracers treat voxels as spheres. Some non uniform space partitions by nature result in frustrum shaped voxels.

The breakthrough of Unlimited Detail is the search method used to extract which point needs to be drawn for any given pixel. That means that unlimited detail is a space partitioning/traversal scheme. Could be a modified version of uniform grid / bintree / quadtree / octree / KD tree or something else.
Post 03 Aug 2011, 19:01
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Artlav



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Moscow, Russia
Artlav
So, how much 12 Tb hard drives should i buy to have that island stored?
I haven't seen sizes mentioned, but if they convert polygon models into voxels, then do they store voxels? That sounds really huge on storage.
Post 03 Aug 2011, 20:20
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ctl3d32



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 204
Location: Brazil
ctl3d32
Maybe... but we can also have instances of an object. The same object with different rotation or scale, like we already have today. I think that we don't need such a huge map like that island (1 km²?). That is too big. I don't like games with very big maps, specially with few players online. But if you take a close look, the island iseems to be formed by some few and lots of repeated blocks.
Post 03 Aug 2011, 22:52
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 2141
Location: Estonia
Madis731
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_generation for example http://infinity-universe.com/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_%282008_video_game%29#Procedural_generation
There are infinite amount of possibilities. You probably need only a few MB for the storage (YMMV).
Post 04 Aug 2011, 11:09
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Artlav



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Moscow, Russia
Artlav
Sure, you can fit a universe on a floppy ( http://s-way.sourceforge.net ).

But they talk specifically about modeller-designed content, converted to atoms from polygons, and that is not procedural.
Post 05 Aug 2011, 15:39
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Madis731



Joined: 25 Sep 2003
Posts: 2141
Location: Estonia
Madis731
You have a point. I don't know enough to argue about the size, but I do think that you can render enough polygons knowing only about 3 vertices or round objects (center and radius).

Maybe their magic is in the Bézier curves and such... or maybe they do get HUGE maps Razz

Although when .theprodukkt made texturing easier (http://www.werkkzeug.com/examples) for artists, maybe level editors will follow.
Post 05 Aug 2011, 19:26
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ctl3d32



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 204
Location: Brazil
ctl3d32
Post 05 Aug 2011, 23:50
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ctl3d32



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 204
Location: Brazil
ctl3d32
Hey guys, here is a very nice interview with the man behind Euclideon.

http://news.mmosite.com/content/2011-08-12/unlimited_detail_scam_or_revolution.shtml
Post 20 Aug 2011, 03:50
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