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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
we will change, since rome, ottoman empire and so on, we keep changing, therefore, we will change so as our society.

my idea of future society is moneyless.
how about you.

here is the link for ten forecasts for 2009 and beyond.
http://www.wfs.org/foresight/index3.htm
Post 22 May 2009, 17:20
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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TmX
Big Brother is watching you... Wink

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1984
Post 22 May 2009, 17:34
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guignol



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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guignol
~ sleepsleepless
Post 23 May 2009, 13:17
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
i scare gov will take me to prison for such thought, coz moneyless = people owns government.
but somehow our society will move on, whether i want it or not, we will change and hopefully to a more peaceful world.
Post 23 May 2009, 16:35
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bitRAKE



Joined: 21 Jul 2003
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bitRAKE
As long as an exchange is needed an abstraction between goods and services is a useful thing for society. Therefor, to eliminate the monetary system would require a society of such abundance that everything is given away. People would work whatever jobs need to be done, and/or all jobs would be seen as equivalent. People would be allowed to consume to the extent of their desire.

Island - final book by English writer Aldous Huxley, published in 1962.

It doesn't seem impossible to me - just difficult to instantiate such a system from where we are now. Resources are limited and this implies a need for a value system (to choose one resource over another). The ability to buffer resources gives rise to exchange.

Sure, money is not needed to realize these interactions. For example, the many ways nature copes with limited resources. Nature's monetary system is one of complex molecules. From high energy bonds to complex sugars nature builds relationships between organism and their environment.

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Last edited by bitRAKE on 23 May 2009, 21:14; edited 1 time in total
Post 23 May 2009, 18:06
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
hi bitrake, i actually think that, we could start by following some of the steps i thought below.

1. the leader must possess great advance knowledge, superior skills and some basic materials. which is (a house, a car, and a stable life).

2. the life of the leader must achieve a state that, whether s(he) works or not, s(he) could still survive ~ another words, s(he) got little commitment towards others. and s(he) understands the meaning of life very well.

3. if the leader loan bank, s(he) must has the ability to repay the loan even s(he) doesn't work for 2 years. ~ means bank loan repay amount is little

so, after the leader achieve the above life state, s(he) could now focus on giving. eg. free computer course, tuition, skills learning community and so on based on what s(he) interested.

the leader can charge for watever amount of $, because some stupid human just never understand and appreciate free stuffs. and they take for granted and will keep on abusing your good intention and demotivate you.

and when some poor folks don't have money to pay the leader (maybe they want to learn some knowledge from the leader), the leader could use them for other purpose, eg. washing clothes, cleaning room or other jobs, so everybody can achieve win-win situation.

this system will co-exists with monetary system when starting, it also means, the leader must live in a simple way (not poor, but simple). nowadays, money has become a burden to most people life, we live to work like bull, for money sake, but in reality, we don't have to.

a moneyless society is a knowledge society. which focus more on knowledge/ideas rather than money. everybody is genius, but it just that they need to be initiated, dare to dream & build.

so, what we need to build, we need an automation system that could produce what our body need, which is food, clean water, fresh air, clothes thats all Smile

it is certainly possible to build a factory with automation system that output foods with only 1% human interaction. (to push the start button).
Post 23 May 2009, 18:41
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

Island - final book by English writer Aldous Huxley, published in 1962.

http://www.huxley.net/island/

thank u bitrake.
Post 23 May 2009, 19:24
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
Well I'm somewhat socialist myself so I can definitely see where you're heading. However, I think the future would probably be like this:

just like today, everyone has his own software factory or can get one easily (computer), in the future we'll probably have nanofactories using nanotechnology or stuff like that, and we'll be able to make anything out of anything.

I.e a computer chip from air!

Information will be the most important thing then, because it's information that tells those nanobots what to do. Just like today the price of a hard disk is shit but the information it can hold can be extremely uber valuable.

edit: that'll also mean a nuke out of air Surprised
Post 23 May 2009, 22:32
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rxantos



Joined: 19 Jul 2008
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rxantos
Unless a meteorite kills 90% of the population I doubt a moneyless society will come to be.

You see, without money there is a limit on the amount of wealth a person can have. And that would mean for the ones in power that they will need to work for the first time in their lives, not an atractive tought.

Money allows for the masses to be easily controlled. How else can you make a person forget about their family and living their lives to concentrate on working for a misserable wage so that another person do not need to work and have the time of their lives while at the same time thinking that the workers are inferior and praying that they will never figure out how have they being duped.

Money itself is useful and not bad, IF is backed up by something material with enough scarcity and at the same time plentiful enough. For most of our history, gold was this material. Todat money is not backed by anything, allowed the unconstitutional "Federal" reserve to make money ouf of air. Thus devaluating the money of everyone else. Thus develuating the work of everyone else.
Post 18 Jun 2009, 21:23
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Post 26 Nov 2009, 02:03
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comrade



Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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comrade
dont be naive
Post 26 Nov 2009, 09:24
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sinsi



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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sinsi
The World Will Work As One! Rolling Eyes

One thing I found funny during the 'Global Financial Crisis' was that Bill Gates (and others) somehow 'lost' money. How? Hole in the pocket?
Post 26 Nov 2009, 09:47
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Quote:

dont be naive

then what is your solution/recommendation towards current all crazy monetary problem? social problem? and more
i would love to hear from you.
Post 26 Nov 2009, 10:58
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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vid
As was already said... moneyless society can only work (effectively, for longer time, without dictatorship) if there is such abundance of goods and services that "demand/offser" relation simply disappears. This was clear even to Marx, well, until Lenin came who decided he can "help history" to build such society faster.
Post 26 Nov 2009, 13:48
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
demands are always greater than offers.
because when mr smith got a car, mr simpson whants a bigger one. not because he needs it, but because he is jealous.

jealousy is not dependant of the money.
Post 26 Nov 2009, 14:49
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
sinsi wrote:
One thing I found funny during the 'Global Financial Crisis' was that Bill Gates (and others) somehow 'lost' money. How? Hole in the pocket?
Money was devalued.

The current system, fractional reserve banking, is unsustainable. People think it is good and "fair" but why do you think that depressions happen every decade? (well some worse than others, like the current one). If you knew how it works I'm positive you would think the same way.

It is such a psychological thing, based on that people don't really measure stuff over a scale of 10 years, so it appears to be "fine" in everyday life, until a depression happens, that is. What's not spontaneous or has short-time or immediate effects for them it means it's perfectly fine. It's just human nature, but it is wrong.

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Post 26 Nov 2009, 15:00
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Azu



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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Azu
bitRAKE wrote:
Sure, money is not needed to realize these interactions. For example, the many ways nature copes with limited resources. Nature's monetary system is one of complex molecules. From high energy bonds to complex sugars nature builds relationships between organism and their environment.
So basically; replace money with something useful in itself, like, say, power(not the political kind)?

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Post 29 Nov 2009, 22:32
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
People need incentives to work. If nobody works then there is no society (and no food either). Money is a way of decoupling direct bartering with one another. It is more efficient to convert goods/services you provide into an intermediate form (i.e. money) than for you to try to find others to directly barter your goods/skills.

e.g. I can program computers for people, this would be my skill. I want to eat food so I find a farmer that has food and offer to program his computer as compensation. But the farmer has no need of my skills and instead wants something else. Plus, I like to eat a variety of foods and one farmer is probably not going to be enough to give a good variety so I need to find many farmers that all want their computers programmed. Well, as you can see, this is not very efficient to directly barter with every supplier. It is generally easier to convert all goods and services into a common agreed form to facilitate efficient trading. Hence we have money. It is not evil, it is about efficiency of trading and, in general, society is better able to progress with money as a bartering system.
Post 30 Nov 2009, 09:37
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
lately, i really give some hard thought about this idea.

basically, we can group human into 3 main types.

group A, those who have skills (not dealing with another human), eg. computer programmer, scientist, machine guy

group B, those who are pretty, eg. models, pretty gals, handsome guys.

group C, those who have great interpersonal skills (dealing with another human). leader, salesman, manager.

so, group A, B and C are those who likely to success on our current social system. (depend on his/her luck also)

so, how bout those who, waiting at the dumpster? fat, fugly, don't care bout life and so on. (that is another story).

so, the problem with -$ society is, not everybody is suitable for this system, in another equal meaning, not everybody is suitable for current monetary based system too.

so, we need to identify who is suitable and who isn't.

to join into -$ society, we need people who with great love, love to care others, don't mind giving away extra, have solid idea bout why making others happy would eventually make us happy too and more. and most important is, they are of people inside the 3 group i categorized above.

the biggest bug in -$ society is those who just take and don't give back. they should be let exists in monetary based system, because they don't want to evolve or devolve, (nobody cares if it is up or down). and probably, they don't deserve our love.

so, until we got enough love, technology is mature (it is quite mature right now), we need a large acre of land or tall building (but gov might start to worry if we become another nation).

衣 = clothes
食 = food
住 = place to stay
行 = transport

these 4 items must get satisfied, otherwise this new -$ system wouldn't last long. these 4 items must be freely available inside our -$ society.
Post 30 Nov 2009, 17:12
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ass0



Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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ass0
$ = whatever

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Post 30 Nov 2009, 19:10
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