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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17271
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Hang on mate, perhaps we can A la Mode in David Hockney chitty chitty. Purest British if ever there was, innit.
Post 31 Dec 2010, 14:47
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8885
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sleepsleep
anyone wrote 1GB source code and hard disk is cheap.. plez fill up it first....
Post 31 Dec 2010, 16:53
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Frank



Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 100
Frank
HAI
CAN HAS LOLCODE?
KTHXBYE

Or in more traditional terms: Hello everybody, LOLCode might be a good variant of English to use in this day and age of computer-mediated communication across language borders and local idioms. Thank you for your attention Cool
Post 01 Jan 2011, 00:21
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DarkAlchemist



Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 108
DarkAlchemist
Frank wrote:
HAI
CAN HAS LOLCODE?
KTHXBYE

Or in more traditional terms: Hello everybody, LOLCode might be a good variant of English to use in this day and age of computer-mediated communication across language borders and local idioms. Thank you for your attention Cool
Oh, hell no. I see people type like that they either get an very angry response from me or the worst response of totally ignoring them (depends if I am the moderator of a forum or I am just a user).
Post 01 Jan 2011, 01:58
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DarkAlchemist



Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 108
DarkAlchemist
vid wrote:
Quote:
I am 100% anti unicode and I never ever write using it.

In other words, you don't know how to write unicode and pretend your lack of skill is an opinion. Problem is, in order to have valid opinion on something, you have to understand it first. Try to code something with unicode support, and then people might start taking your opinion more seriously.

Quote:
C/C++/ASM I always turn it off

What exactly does "turning off unicode" mean in C/C++, and what in Assembly? Smile
I have written in Unicode before and I refuse to accommodate you. Not a lack of skill (I mean it doesn't take much skill to write anything in Unicode) I just refuse to accommodate the non English readers.

Simple as that but my market is the American market anyway not overseas.

Now, when an international company pays me to write their program so it works in other countries I oblige but for my own code I refuse to. English is the language of business and I try to enforce that.

Turning off unicode support in Visual Studio is: edit->project properties->general properties->general->character set->Use Multi-Byte Character Set or Use Unicode Character Set. I always select the former for my code and the latter for a company that wants their product shipped to countries that do not wish to use the De Facto standard language of business known as English.

Now I have said my peace on this subject and anyone who always argues for the sake of arguing (you know who you are as most who reads this forum does as well) and anyone else who just wishes to argue without regards to the EXACT subject matter at hand can piss off.

Just because you have 16 gigs of ram and 2 terrabytes of a harddrive does not mean you program something so bloated just because you have the space. That ideology sounds like Bill Gates which should never have been born.
Post 01 Jan 2011, 02:11
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Enko



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Mar del Plata
Enko
Quote:
Your chars are still taking up 7 or 8 bits in your scree

OMG!!! They are wasting my bits.... give me back my bits!!!!!!!!
Post 02 Jan 2011, 13:47
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vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
DarkAlchemist wrote:
I have written in Unicode before and I refuse to accommodate you. Not a lack of skill (I mean it doesn't take much skill to write anything in Unicode) I just refuse to accommodate the non English readers.

OK, I thought "I never ever write using unicode" included past.

Quote:
Turning off unicode support in Visual Studio is: edit->project properties->general properties->general->character set->Use Multi-Byte Character Set or Use Unicode Character Set.

Oh, you meant you always "turn off" unicode in Visual Studio, not C/C++. The latter wouldn't make much sense (that's why I asked). And what is "turning off unicode" in assembly?

Quote:
Just because you have 16 gigs of ram and 2 terrabytes of a harddrive does not mean you program something so bloated just because you have the space. That ideology sounds like Bill Gates which should never have been born.

How is unicode more bloated? Storage of purely English text takes on HDD the same amount, strings being actively worked with by application usually take 2 or 4 times more RAM which isn't THAT much considering it's only for strings and you get and i18n support. Collation tables take several megs on your HDD. All unicode support libraries you might ever need take several megs on HDD. What other bloat is there?

In fact, if you already have 16 gigs of RAM, it would be silly to only use 640K of it, like Bill Gates once suggested, and like you seem to prefer Razz

Quote:
Now I have said my peace on this subject and anyone who always argues for the sake of arguing (you know who you are as most who reads this forum does as well) and anyone else who just wishes to argue without regards to the EXACT subject matter at hand can piss off.

I wonder... why did you start this thread in the first place? Just to inform us about your preferences, or was there some other purpose too?
Post 02 Jan 2011, 17:00
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dosin



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 337
dosin
Guy 1-Hey man, where are we?
Guy 2-Alabama
Guy 1-Aw Hell to the No!

"You cheeky monkey"

èrbǎiwǔ

Wink

one language .. no fun..
No worries, mate!

Happy New Year - !!!!
Post 02 Jan 2011, 17:28
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DarkAlchemist



Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 108
DarkAlchemist
vid wrote:
I wonder... why did you start this thread in the first place? Just to inform us about your preferences, or was there some other purpose too?
Just to clarify I didn't start this thread a mod removed my response from another thread and created a new post for it. It wasn't my doing.

At first it was a joke response to the other thread but the one who always argues for the sake of arguing came and it was on. Don't like him because he always argues for the sake of arguing and probably has a superiority complex but in real life is far far inferior (deep down he knows it I bet).

Now you know and knowing is half the battle, lol.
Post 04 Jan 2011, 19:43
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Tomasz Grysztar wrote:
DarkAlchemist wrote:
[...]but we are talking about coding here and English need only take 7 or 8 bits. ANSI all the way.
So you'd like to cut off the cultural heritage of so many nations just so that you would have a little easier time coding text processing routines? I can smell totalitarian approach...
And why not Esperanto? Wink


Why not Esperanto? No clout, not enough power, not enough momentum. Sure, there are tons of books and periodicals published, but that won't make people learn it. Sure, it's only 16 grammatical rules and a (fairly) small subset of a dictionary needed to get by (which can be used to build more complex words). The real problem, besides lack of interest, is either he has no need or no time. Well, in truth anyways, E-o was always meant only as a "second" language, not meant to replace any others, only meant as a means to get along, communicate better, etc. (It needs 8-bit glyphs though, but you can simulate those in 7-bit with "ch", etc. Or use Ido, but that's an incompatible derivative with far far less support.)

Funny that he calls English the "lingua franca", for obvious reasons. French used to be extremely popular, and that is indeed a Romance language (derived from Latin). But Latin is dead because everybody went their own way. Well, it's not super easy either. Even 60% or so of English comes from Latin, and yet it's Germanic.

And by the way, "Olde English" isn't what you think it is, that's not what Shakespeare wrote, he wouldn't understand a lick of it:

Wikipedia wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_english

Fæder ūre þū þe eart on heofonum, Sī þīn nama ġehālgod. Tōbecume þīn rīċe, ġewurþe ðīn willa, on eorðan swā swā on heofonum.


Look, when you're landlocked (like me) and your country (U.S.) is huge and monolingual, it's easy to say, "Everyone should be like us". But that's not going to happen (and isn't reasonable anyways). English is too complex, too irregular. Besides, only 20% of the world is monolingual, so anybody insisting upon a single language (exclusively) isn't going to win popular opinion.

And hey, some people like multiple languages! But yeah, supporting 6000+ is a heavy burden. Shocked

P.S. Lack of decent Unicode support is causing many projects to suffer and/or drop legacy OSes, which pains me as a FreeDOS fan. Sure, you can write Unicode apps for any OS (Mined, Bloček, GNU Emacs all have DOS ports), but nobody does. Path of least resistance (or maybe just laziness) or maybe I'm just getting old. Bah, kids and their new-fangled toys! Wink
Post 05 Jan 2011, 05:50
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7721
Location: Kraków, Poland
Tomasz Grysztar
rugxulo wrote:
No clout, not enough power, not enough momentum.
I don't think any of these things really count when we are talking about the fantasy of dropping all the human languages in favor of one. Wink And if something like that really was to happen, I would of course favor the synthetic languages (preferably ones that everyone would need to learn as something new).

DarkAlchemist wrote:
At first it was a joke response to the other thread but the one who always argues for the sake of arguing came and it was on.
I think it was you who argued for the sake of arguing. revolution actually provided some quite sober points, while your responses lacked consistency. Like: if you want to simplify things, then why would you call potentially simplifying changes to the old, full of "atavisms" language a "bastardization"?
Post 05 Jan 2011, 09:55
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Fanael



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 168
Fanael
Tomasz Grysztar wrote:
And if something like that really was to happen, I would of course favor the synthetic languages (preferably ones that everyone would need to learn as something new).
Any particular reason why it should be a synthetic language?
Post 06 Jan 2011, 11:17
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Fanael wrote:
Any particular reason why it should be a synthetic language?


Political neutrality would be the most important. (Nobody wants somebody else's views, languages, ideas, etc. forced on them by law.) But also simplicity since natural languages tend to branch/fork off into millions of incompatible variants. Crying or Very sad And BTW, E-o isn't really synthetic, it's not random gibberish with weird symbols, it uses a standard Roman alphabet with international (Romance, Slavic, etc) word roots. So it's not really "from scratch" meant to be different just for difference's sake.

EDIT: Some people argue that such a basis from existing words, languages, alphabets, etc. actually decreases (or prevents) true neutrality, but I don't see how being 100% incompatible to everyone is more practical or realistic or better somehow. Some word roots really are recognized across most languages anyways, so I don't see how it hurts to standardize on them. I'm sure the Chinese have a harder time learning E-o than Europeans, but I don't see how they could (or should) be happier if everybody else also had to learn yet another alphabet, vocabulary, etc too. (Misery loves company?)

Zamenhof lived among a ton of different ethnicities, and none of them got along very well. Part of that was because they couldn't communicate, so he thought it would help people cooperate better if they actually understood each other on common, neutral ground (and could still keep their native languages). He himself was Polish citizen, Lithuanian ethnicity (I think), spoke Russian, and was Jewish (Hebrew). Well, he also had learned the classics (Latin, Greek) and then a bunch of other languages too. Yeah, Europe's complex, I don't have to tell you guys! Wink

EDIT #2: Since we are in Heap, hopefully nobody will complain, or not too much, about me posting this explanatory snippet here:

Wikipedia wrote:

The place where I was born and spent my childhood gave direction to all my future struggles. In Bialystok the inhabitants were divided into four distinct elements: Russians, Poles, Germans and Jews; each of these spoke their own language and looked on all the others as enemies. In such a town a sensitive nature feels more acutely than elsewhere the misery caused by language division and sees at every step that the diversity of languages is the first, or at least the most influential, basis for the separation of the human family into groups of enemies. I was brought up as an idealist; I was taught that all people were brothers, while outside in the street at every step I felt that there were no people, only Russians, Poles, Germans, Jews and so on. This was always a great torment to my infant mind, although many people may smile at such an 'anguish for the world' in a child. Since at that time I thought that 'grown-ups' were omnipotent, so I often said to myself that when I grew up I would certainly destroy this evil.
—L. L. Zamenhof, in a letter to N. Borovko, ca. 1895
Post 06 Jan 2011, 19:56
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
beside the sound that we human could create.

A till Z,

is there any more sound that we haven't yet discover?

sometime i think, the A to Z discoverer is just so smart..... or lucky...
Post 06 Jan 2011, 20:52
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Fanael



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 168
Fanael
rugxulo wrote:
Political neutrality would be the most important. (Nobody wants somebody else's views, languages, ideas, etc. forced on them by law.)
I don't see what the fact that language is synthetic (as opposed to isolating, also known as analytic) has to do with political neutrality.
Post 06 Jan 2011, 21:25
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rugxulo



Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2341
Location: Usono (aka, USA)
rugxulo
Fanael wrote:
I don't see what the fact that language is synthetic (as opposed to isolating, also known as analytic) has to do with political neutrality.


Natural languages are heavily tied to the countries they are used in and the ethnicities which speak them. So bias, prejudice, xenophobia all tend to blame the language itself for the person(s)' actions (regardless of technical merit). It's not about the specific country being neutral or not, but the natural languages themselves are sometimes seen as "tainted" due to them being widely known (among foreigners) as "that speech used by the warmongers" or similar. People refuse to cater to their "enemies" by using "their" language, and E-o was meant to be a compromise (auxiliary, aka second, only) to help avoid that problem (assuming anybody actually wants to get along of course). It's not perfect, and it may not ever fully work, but hey, at least somebody tried.
Post 07 Jan 2011, 04:43
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Tomasz Grysztar
Assembly Artist


Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Posts: 7721
Location: Kraków, Poland
Tomasz Grysztar
By "synthetic" I did mean simply "artificial", I did not want to use any specialist terminology here. At least rugxulo understood me correctly. Smile
Post 07 Jan 2011, 09:14
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davs



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 5
Location: Philippines
davs
We could use Assembly English...
Post 07 Jan 2011, 10:51
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guignol



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 701
guignol
Tom, darky here is right about two things: that all Americans are bastards, and that all Canuckians argue solely for the sake of being able to have the possibility to explicitly make an oppotunity to establish a facility to support the process... where was I? oh yeah! something about argument...
Post 08 Jan 2011, 14:45
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Coty



Joined: 17 May 2010
Posts: 546
Location: ␀
Coty
Thanks! It is awesome that you have such a high opinion of me guignol!

--
Cheers!
Post 08 Jan 2011, 15:07
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