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iic2 06 Nov 2010, 22:31
Unbelievable! It's clean-up week again.
Thanks f0dder |
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06 Nov 2010, 22:31 |
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f0dder 09 Nov 2010, 12:12
drobole wrote: For goodness sake, don't make C/C++ look like BASIC! 
drobole wrote: Besides, you have no guarantee that it won't slow down your code. When the compiler sees it, it may wery well go: BEGIN... END?!?! Hmm, this guy probably wants me to generate sloppy code...  _________________  - carpe noctem |
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09 Nov 2010, 12:12 |
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revolution 09 Nov 2010, 12:16
drobole wrote: Hmm, this guy probably wants me to generate sloppy code... |
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09 Nov 2010, 12:16 |
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iic2 11 Nov 2010, 05:38
For me, since going back to school it been all about networking since I fell-in-love with FreeBSD (but school only gave me "MORE" Windows). Now i'm taking a course in C++ for two reasons. To understand ASM a LOT better and I like the way C++ people talk code. I read a lot of threads here about C++ that got me wondering some years ago. I notice a lot of you guys earn a living writing C++ code while moonlighting with FASM.
For me, the trick is to understand the textbook tongue twisters and big names for the simplest things. They got 50 complicated way to say VARIABLE, with each sentence consisting of fifteen words or more. I'm hoping with some ASM knowledge and comparing notes I think I can get the compiler to near match most of my raw assembler if I keep my FASM simple. If not, I'm going to pick up a lot just for trying. If most of those super-skillful C++ people knew ASM I think he and her would top all charts, just like many of you here. They put down ASM coding as hard as we complain about writing C. They claim it's re-usable and portable but C++ for Windows is far difference than writing for UNIX. 32-bit is far difference than today's 64-bit and QUANTUM is nearing too. It's going to change it all back to ASM first, anyway. So I might as well stick to ASM and learn C++ just to c and be ready for what to be next (which seem to be a lot of MATH). One thing for sure, I still got a long way to go to get there. |
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11 Nov 2010, 05:38 |
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drobole 11 Nov 2010, 06:51
Taking a few C++ courses is probably a good idea. Its a fantastic piece of engineering art imo. Still, hanging out with C++ for too long might come back and bite you. Its not a very productive language despite all the third party libraries that comes with it. If you stick to it for too long you will start hear professionals talk about idioms, patterns and a four headed beast called polymorphism. All workarounds for a minefield of a language without restraints.
But of course, its a really fun language to play with. Personally I hope the D language will get more attention in the years to come. I much prefer it to C++. Another interesting system language is Go. |
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11 Nov 2010, 06:51 |
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f0dder 11 Nov 2010, 08:16
iic2 wrote: They claim it's re-usable and portable but C++ for Windows is far difference than writing for UNIX. 32-bit is far difference than today's 64-bit and QUANTUM is nearing too. .
32- vs 64-bit isn't much of a difference in C/C++, but of course it can affect choices wrt. buffer sizes, and you need to keep it in mind when serializing your data, whether for persistence or communication. drobole wrote: Personally I hope the D language will get more attention in the years to come. I much prefer it to C++. |
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11 Nov 2010, 08:16 |
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drobole 11 Nov 2010, 08:55
Dynamic class loading sounds like a high level concept to me, I'm not sure though as I have never used it that I'm aware of.
D does have reflections http://boscoh.com/programming/some-reflection-on-programming-in-d-and-why-it-kicks-serious-ass-over-c-leaving-it-died-and-tired-on-the-sidewalk (rofl) Seriously, its a young language even though things have been picking up since Alexandrescu went into it. He even wrote a book "The D Programming language" that is pretty darn good. I do agree however that it still has issues, the compiler has forked into a version 1 vs 2. Standard libraries has been rendered more or less useless recently due to the fork, the license for the DMD backend still smells, lack of third parties, slow support on unix like platforms, etc. Its certaintly too early to seriously lean on it. |
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11 Nov 2010, 08:55 |
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f0dder 11 Nov 2010, 10:19
My understanding of dynamic class loading: basically, the ability to do plugins. Like, having a MonsterEntity interface/abstract base class, and add new concrete MonsterFoo implementations at runtime (without recompile or reload of the app).
But I guess there's ways around it, like factory methods in DLLs |
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11 Nov 2010, 10:19 |
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drobole 11 Nov 2010, 11:12
I see.
I guess you would have to go about it like you would in C++ |
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11 Nov 2010, 11:12 |
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rugxulo 12 Nov 2010, 17:34
drobole wrote:
First, I don't know D at all, but ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/D_Programming http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/befunge/ccbi.html So it's not that rare, and people do use it. Too early? Hardly. As for license woes and incompatibilities and slow adoption, that applies to pretty much every technology that isn't extremely-boring-old-stable-crufty. It's still a dog-eat-dog world, and you still should use the right tool for the job (though deciding that is half the battle indeed). P.S. And it's not like C++ was ever perfect, but it's what people work on and update, use, prefer, etc. That's the only reason it "wins". |
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12 Nov 2010, 17:34 |
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drobole 12 Nov 2010, 18:02
rugxulo wrote:
Well I kind of agree with you. Hell, I even bought the book from Alexandrescu. (He sent me one of those copies that doesn't have a author name on the front cover so I guess I'm not considered a VIP afterall  )
However, there is a few things to say here. They advice us to use the version 2 of the compiler for new projects, but they also say that the syntax and libraries may change without further notice. This will probably change soon but thats the current status. Another thing to consider is that there is no x86-64 compiler available yet. I'm not the first one to say that they have to get that going before they can call it a mature compiler. (The developers even say this themself on the irc channel) ps. I'm talking about the DMD version 2 here... Just a side note, I never said C++ was perfect. Actually, I said C++ is a minefield for anyone not experienced with what goes on under the hood, so to speak. A part from that I agree with you. |
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12 Nov 2010, 18:02 |
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rugxulo 12 Nov 2010, 19:09
drobole wrote:
Par for the course, but indeed very frustrating. Quote:
I guess you mean for Windows? LDC supports x86-64, apparently, since a separate CCBI binary exists for it. Quote:
Most people truly don't "need" 64-bit support, hence why development lags for many tools. Why upgrade when 32-bit compatibility works well? Quote:
It's not that I hate C++ , but it's pretty complicated and the syntax is a little frustrating. But some people can't live without some of its features and eschew all other "less modern" languages. |
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12 Nov 2010, 19:09 |
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Tomasz Grysztar 12 Nov 2010, 19:51
rugxulo wrote: It's not that I hate C++ , but it's pretty complicated and the syntax is a little frustrating. But some people can't live without some of its features and eschew all other "less modern" languages. It is very flexible and in capable hands it can handle almost anything - but this comes at a price. |
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12 Nov 2010, 19:51 |
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drobole 12 Nov 2010, 19:51
@rugxulo
Well, things are looking good for D... the only problem I have really is if I prefer Go. In many ways, Go is good at many of the things C++ and D is not. Its simplicity makes me worry less about what feature to use, and it is designed to utilize multiple CPU cores and concurrent threads with ease. And the support from G$$gle on top of that... Uhhh, what to choose... |
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12 Nov 2010, 19:51 |
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guignol 14 Nov 2010, 06:23
Tomasz Grysztar wrote: "the chair than can be used also as a hammer, is neither a comfortable chair and neither a handy hammer".
Tomasz Grysztar wrote: I think C++ suffers from such a syndrome. |
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14 Nov 2010, 06:23 |
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rugxulo 15 Nov 2010, 18:01
Well, Go support (last I heard) was very weak on Windows, fairly incomplete. So if that platform matters to you (probably), it may not be the best choice.
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15 Nov 2010, 18:01 |
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drobole 16 Nov 2010, 13:27
I know. There is a windows version but its not officially supported. It works though
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16 Nov 2010, 13:27 |
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