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Tyler



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
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Tyler
Do they exist? Can anything with a cause be random? Is everything the effect of some cause(s)?
Post 27 Jul 2010, 01:55
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DOS386



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
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DOS386
Tyler wrote:
Do they exist? Can anything with a cause be random? Is everything the effect of some cause(s)?


Radioactive decay is truly random Smile

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Post 27 Jul 2010, 02:03
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Tyler



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Tyler
How can it be predictable(half life) and random? It can't. I don't know much about isotopic decay, but from all cases I've encountered, it's predictable. If I've assumed wrong, don't hesitate to correct me.
Post 27 Jul 2010, 02:39
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Radio activity is random. Only the average is predictable. Kind of like car accidents, we know there will be a few thousand every year but we can't predict exactly when or where.

There are a few other processes that are also considered random. Thermal noise in resistors is often used as a source in hardware random number generators.
Post 27 Jul 2010, 08:12
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Tyler



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Tyler
Car wrecks may appear random, by if every cause is the effect of a cause(That is true isn't it?), couldn't you predict anything? The inability to sufficiently analyze effects to predict causes and their effects doesn't prove effects or causes are random, or does it?
Post 27 Jul 2010, 23:40
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mindcooler



Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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mindcooler
Sounds like you want to read up on some quantum theory.
Post 27 Jul 2010, 23:51
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
everything is random in fact, some things just have a randomness value between one unique value.

for example, rand(1,1) will always give the result of 1, the usage of this fucntion is random too.

i think random is a really blured concept, because nothing can be considered as random because if we analyse, even termal noise in resistors is not really random. it generates a white noise for us, but at the electron level, it is not random at all, the electrons exactlly know why they move faster or slower.
Post 28 Jul 2010, 00:19
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Post 28 Jul 2010, 00:37
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Tyler



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Tyler
http://xkcd.com/221/: Dice rolls aren't random. If one can sufficiently control the environment, one can control how the dice rolls. If one can control it, one can predict it. One would just have to consider every variable that is input in to the equation. A truly formidable task.

mindcooler: What about quantum physics? Is the existence of randomness a topic of discussion in quantum physics?
Post 28 Jul 2010, 02:40
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Since there a far too many variables, and measurements to make to gather information on initial conditions, then for all practical intents and purposes dice rolls are random. There is no way to know everything about the dice, the person rolling it and the environment, see Heisenberg uncertainty principal.

Unless you want to reduce it to some trivial case like the person simply "rolls" the dice only a few cm and can thus determine the outcome. But that is severely distorting the intended meaning of a "dice roll".
Post 28 Jul 2010, 03:28
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Tyler



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Tyler
Arbitrary precision is overkill(and useless, as you proved,) for this task. For determining the mass input into momentum, one would determine mass before the experiment, and assume it doesn't change. For position(s) and the velocity input into momentum, one could use a laser position sensor(Or whatever the laser things in police speed guns are called, you know what I mean.). The precision would come from how often the position is determined, more often making more accurate velocity measurements.

I'm not saying it would be easy, just that it's possible.

That link is interesting. I'll be using all my spare brain cycles on it for the next couple of days. Smile
Post 28 Jul 2010, 04:07
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Shining laser beams on the dice would alter their momentum and position. The more laser pulses you use to measure the dice the more you disturb them. Can you also measure and predict the motion and interaction of all the air particles surrounding the dice?
Post 28 Jul 2010, 04:30
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Tyler



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Tyler
> Shining laser beams on the dice would alter their momentum and position.
Seriously, idk that.

Okay revolution, you win. Smile
Post 28 Jul 2010, 04:51
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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Post 28 Jul 2010, 06:58
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mindcooler



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mindcooler
Tyler wrote:
mindcooler: What about quantum physics? Is the existence of randomness a topic of discussion in quantum physics?


At the quantum level, everything boils down to probabilities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_indeterminacy

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Post 28 Jul 2010, 16:23
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vid
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vid
I'd say, we currently don't have a model of reality without randomness. Well, we don't have complete model of reality anyway, but still...
Post 29 Jul 2010, 13:27
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
pi number?
Post 17 Sep 2010, 05:18
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Tyler



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Tyler
Interesting, I didn't think of irrational numbers. I guess you could also use the sqrt of any non perfect square. Which get's more accurate faster? You can use Newton's Method to converge very quickly on nth roots.
Post 17 Sep 2010, 05:48
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revolution
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revolution
Pi, e, sqrt(2), etc. are not random, they are perfectly predicable and repeatable. However computers that calculate them can (and do) generate random results sometimes.
Post 17 Sep 2010, 05:55
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ouadji



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ouadji

Random events or random numbers don't exist.
They are only the result of an equation which we don't know all the unknowns.
The word "random" is a human invention to give a shape to his fears and his fantasies.

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Post 17 Sep 2010, 08:01
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