flat assembler
Message board for the users of flat assembler.

Index > Heap > help need, idea & concept appreciate, moneyless

Goto page 1, 2  Next
Author
Thread Post new topic Reply to topic
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8974
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
ok,
i just bought a house, it just passed OC last week, and it was my initial idea to provide "free" IT related education services to human. (it got 3 rooms, 1 for me to rest)

i hate money, yeah, fucking hate it, but i still use it and need it to proceed with my temporarily life.

now, i need your idea, or concept or just whatever that you could think of, that within my budget,

to set up a "moneyless" society.

i explain a bit what i already got, perhaps you could analyze and together i make it true before i die.

1. 1 house with 3 rooms. (i plan to use the 1 room for training center), 2 for me and 3 room for store.

2. i got several pc, pentium 3 to pentium 4. ram around 512 each. (around 4 units there, i need to purchase 2 or 3 units LCD maybe) i will run windows & linux & bsd on the training room.

3. i am single by the way... (guess not so important here). hhahah

4. gonna apply internet connection, around 100 per month (that is within my budget also)

now, how i should start, and i understand deeply that human are so moron and greedy. they will exploit me... eg. bringing their pc or laptop to my center and ask me to repair them for free.

leave their children on my center (sort of asking me to look after them).

and serious, i don't really wanna charge unless charging is the only solution.

i want a change on human view & perception.

and i need your help (not in term of money, but in term on how should i do it before i got exploited and dead)...... i fucking knew life is temporarily, thats why, i felt i need to do something.

bad people and those who already gone into dark side are just too many, so how should i proceed?

i will sacrifice my own "money", but i need to "live" in order to continue sacrifice... so, i need your idea.
Post 05 Jul 2010, 07:34
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17348
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Learn to say "no". Then the level of exploitation that you are prepared to accept is under your own control.
Post 05 Jul 2010, 07:45
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8974
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
would "moneyless" idea still work if i could say "no"??
if he asks me what you need in order to say "yes",,, what should i answer?

i need a way/idea to handle those "dark sided" people, so they could join my quest and realize there is something there, and hopefully shift they perception then start another house that provide another kind of "moneyless" service to human.
Post 05 Jul 2010, 07:51
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Tyler



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 1216
Location: NC, USA
Tyler
You could adopt some orphans. Give them a place to live, and teach them a trade(IT). You could teach them your beliefs and hope they carry on your moneyless society after you die. Kids are a lot less likely to exploit you.
Post 05 Jul 2010, 08:00
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sinsi



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 695
Location: Adelaide
sinsi
charge the guy in the bmw 90 bucks
charge mum with two kids 10 bucks

if you don't charge, real people are more hesitant (they must pay something) but dark people will take advantage.

moneyless=poverty
Post 05 Jul 2010, 08:02
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8974
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
Quote:

adopt some orphans

to be frank, that is out of my budget,,, adopt = provide them not only a house, but a family + love ... food, school, transports, and more.. and each of these need money... involve lots of cost..

ideas on how to promote such moneyless concept, and "what" must be done before others shift their perception and start join my quest.


Quote:

charge the guy in the bmw 90 bucks
charge mum with two kids 10 bucks

that still involve money, and if possible i want to skip, because, this will not change anything. and i will play god role to decide who should pay what and what... who can come to my center and who cannot...

now, i just got one idea, (but hell know would it works).
i stick the unpaid bills on the wall, and see whoever who wanna settle the bill to contact me...

but, how bout those dark sided people who wanna exploit me... still a problem here.


Last edited by sleepsleep on 05 Jul 2010, 08:47; edited 1 time in total
Post 05 Jul 2010, 08:21
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8974
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
just a moment ago, i felt that, maybe... hmmm,,, maybe...

i could change this world...
Post 05 Jul 2010, 08:38
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4240
Location: 2018
edfed
really cool project!

if you have some garden, you can grow vegetables.
if you have some land, you can put there and here some solar and wind generators.
wind generator are hand makable, solar generator not, but solar water warmer are hand makable too.

then, if people comes to your "ideal local world", they should participate.

i know a lot of little examples like that in france.
named "villages ecologiques".

i(d like to participate on one of them, and money less is... a lot more interresting than only ecologic.

it is a good idea for diy guys like me. i am sure you will find people smart and honest enough to give you a good help.

post some pics of your house!! Very Happy
Post 05 Jul 2010, 08:49
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8974
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
i quoted this from revolution,
Quote:

So if we let people just do only what they love to do then who cleans the toilets at McDonalds?

if everyone play their part, i mean, if u saw the toilet is kinda dirty when you enter, you would automatically clean it up, as if the toilet is your own house toilet...

maybe people are SO MUCH AFRAID TO HELP? people scared being cheated. scared to play dumb. nobody wanna sacrifice a little bit of own self.
Post 05 Jul 2010, 08:55
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Tyler



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 1216
Location: NC, USA
Tyler
Quote:

if u saw the toilet is kinda dirty when you enter, you would automatically clean it up, as if the toilet is your own house toilet...

This reminds me of a movie I saw about Gandhi. In it, he made his wife clean the toilets, she didn't want to so they had an argument about it. I guess you're analogous to Gandhi.

You could have a society like that, just kick out those who refuse the "I'll clean your toilet, you clean mine." philosophy. You would just have to be strict when strictness is warranted, to stop the bad people from discouraging those who truly want to participate in your society.
Post 05 Jul 2010, 09:47
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17348
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
I think you focus too much upon the money aspect. What you seem to be proposing is a help barter system. "I help you and you help me back" right? But that fails in too many ways, and is the reason that money was invented: to allow a freer exchange (bartering of goods and services) between people of different skills and abilities.
Post 05 Jul 2010, 09:50
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4240
Location: 2018
edfed
there are many ways to pay.

direct work (repair your house, help other clients,...)
food (cooking, providing, make coffee,...)
service (washing clothes, loan a bike, ...)
materials (paint, solar panels, electronic components, ...)

THE BAKER - hello, i have a motor that doen't work, can you look at it please?
SLEEP SLEEP - yes of course, ... ho i see,
TB - thanks, i remember you don't like ***, then, i give you ****.
SS, ok, thanks, you want to see how i repair it? just like that you will be able to do it after that by youself!
TB - Yeah! sure, lets go!
...
...
etc, making money less stuff is cool.

and in last:
money (to buy things, pay national taxes, ...)

money is an anonymous help, it have the undesired effect to separate humans, letting them buy what they want without any form of kindness with other people,

THE UNPOLITE GUY - give me that ****
THE VENDOR - $40 please
TUG - take it!
"cling cling"
TV - thanks and good by!
TUG - humrpfff!!!
...
sure money stuff is not cool...

of course, all of these payements should be made by everybody. because to live, you not only need to do ONE unique thing, you should do a lot of them, like washing clothes, cooking, repair house, do administrative papers, etc...

all things boring to do alone are a lot easyer to do when we do it together.
here, people lived like that during middle age. but it was the misery because they were under the oppression (protection) of their lords.

but it is still the case right now, even in an advanced country like USA or france. you pay to rent for your appartment, pay taxes (FR taxes), taxes (FR impots), and taxes (FR taxes d'habitation) again (taxes fonciere).
if you are your own boss, owning your own company, you will pay the professional tax (FR taxe professionelle)... it looks like middle age.

you can experiment some thing like this, assiming you align mounth on money like periodic taxes, food, internet connection, electric power, additional costs, etc... one mounth should see more money to enter than to leave your treasure, alway more money because you should be able to react to undesired expensive events like accidents, "sudently, the brother, that i never saw since 20 yers, come to me, and asked me 400 dollars because he is in real embarasment", things like that force you to make benefits.
but benefits should not be made only for benefits, it should be made for unexpected situations fixes. then, no need to achieve a semestrial rentability objective of million dollars. just see your enterprise like a part of you, a part you need, then, it is you, and as you don't want to lose a part of your body, you will make what is needed to don't lose it. like you will "take care of /repair" your bike in order to see it work.

but for a thing like a house, you will need (even if proprietary) continue to pay things every years.

passed theses goals, everything is free.

it all depends on the location of your house.
Post 05 Jul 2010, 10:13
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8974
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
Quote:

post some pics of your house!!

ok, soon, no problem, will post them later.

Quote:

I think you focus too much upon the money aspect.

yes, i focus on the money aspect, because i need to get rid it totally, because it is VIRUS.

and eventually, i come to an IDEA here.. Smile..
hmm, it is like below.

free service IS ONLY provided to people WHO WILLING TO PROVIDE HIS/HER free service.

so, it works like this,
if you wanna join my computing class for free, you must think of a free service that you willing to provide.
it doesn't matter if i want your free service or not, but you must provide free service to people who already provide a free service.

so, FREE or moneyless is only enjoy by people who participate this concept. those who don't participate this concept, sorry, u must pay $$.

but if u want it free, then you start provide a free service...

what u guys think? i think, using such method, first, i save myself from getting rip off by moron.

then, this idea will get spread... so, to have it free, u must provide something free too..

so, maybe i need to define "SERVICE".

but i guess, the core of this moneyless idea is, provide a free service then you get it free service back.
Post 07 Jul 2010, 16:54
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8974
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
so, maybe a website that list out people already joined this concept.
then we do a weekly review,
a website to calculate how many people who actually use ur service,
if 0 or just less than 10% of total people who joined this concept use ur service, then, you need to change your "free service". to something else.

then the "free service" must got market value, otherwise it is no use.

and maybe people who joined this concept could post into web what "free service" they demand.

what i could think of probably.
(-). free barber.
(-). free house tidy
(-). free "whatever knowledge/skill related" classes
(-). free food.(breakfast, lunch, dinner, supper)

and those who participate must at least provide 2 hours of his/her 24 hours per day for such service... so, each week 14 hours.

then we accumulate the income of those people who "paid" to use the service, then we divide it by total service served, then "incentive" is paid to those free service provider based on the demand towards their service.(to support them because it isn't free and we all knew that, so, hopefully the incentive could ease their burden while providing the free service)
Post 07 Jul 2010, 17:22
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17348
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
So you just replace money with providing services.

No matter how you try to disguise it, it is still a bartering system at the core. The only difference is that rather than formalise it with the widely accepted money value, you replace it with the far less widely accepted value of provided services.

How do you monitor people that start to freeload and abuse the system? Maybe keep a log of services provided by someone so they can accumulate credit for redemption from someone else later? If so then that is just the role of a bank.

How do you give incentive to someone with special/rare skills? One hour of service from them should be worth 100's of hour return service from others, else they have no incentive to work hard if it is a basic 1-to-1 exchange.

Socialism has failed many times in the past, not because of money, but because of lack of incentives to excel. To make your system work you will need to find a way to reward those that do the most. So without money then what else will you offer?
Post 07 Jul 2010, 17:55
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
roboman



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 122
Location: USA
roboman
Barter is a nice system (although here in the USA you are still required to pay tax on what ever the cost of the trade would have been) The biggest problem is the person who has something you need and you have nothing they want, then came the cool idea of money, so you wouldn't need to run all over town to find some one who had something the other guy wanted and wanted something you had. so every thing has a value and we all just trade. Ya then came the bankers, stocks and commodity traders.....evil...

The really funny thing is I grew up with the computer. At 12 a friend and I talked the schools computer guy into letting us play on the computer in exchange for doing half of his job. Then started building my own computer in 1976. There were several areas around the country where computer clubs sprang up. with the interest and exchange of ideas things grew and exploded. Then most all the clubs changed from showing each other the cool things you had done and became dominated with sales people trying to sell computers. The Bay Area (silicon valley) seemed to be the last hold out for the free exchange of ideas and there software pattens and owning the rights to designs became the rule in the end. I think it's still the place where so much happens because so many people are wlling to run small businesses at cost, because it's what they love. Personaly I don't think you can give any thing away for free to most adults, they are way to sold out into the years of marketing that has told them something is only worth what it costs you. I think it's very cool that you want to set this up, but think you need to charge any one old enough to work enough to cover the costs ( hell money is only another form of barter) and let the younger ones in free. the only values they have at that point is their bodies needs and what they find interesting. 'Make magazine' is actualy more then just a magazine, http://thecrucible.org/ , South Bay Metalworkers, http://www.techshop.ws/ are some examples that come to mind
Post 07 Jul 2010, 18:18
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
vid
Verbosity in development


Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 7105
Location: Slovakia
vid
sleepsleep: Sorry, I didn't read discussion, just the first post. I don't think you can do it yourself. However, if you know more likeminded people in your area, you should look into starting up a hackerspace. We are starting one right now in Bratislava, and they are being creating everywhere around (eastern Slovakia, Czech Republic, Poland; Hungary and Austria already have some, Germany has over 60).

Or, you can check if there isn't one existing already: http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/List_of_Hacker_Spaces
Post 07 Jul 2010, 20:13
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger ICQ Number Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8974
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
Quote:

sleepsleep: Sorry, I didn't read discussion, just the first post. I don't think you can do it yourself.

sad to hear that,,, this actually demotivate me... sort of..
Post 08 Jul 2010, 07:36
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8974
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
Quote:

To make your system work you will need to find a way to reward those that do the most. So without money then what else will you offer?

for those who believe this system/concept would works, what other incentives that s(he) still needs rather than seeing it works?

if let say (we assume), today, every resources could be maintained automatically by robot. and human have all his 24 hour no need to do anything in order to survive, (u could call it a lazy or paradise lifestyle).

would human just sit there, watch tv or what? human would probably love such living at first, but later boring because no longer have any goal... so next is to advance them into more knowledge / spiritual society.

what are the "stuffs" that we could take away after we dead? almost nothing... and why we so long to hold and possess "stuffs" that we obviously couldn't take away?
Post 08 Jul 2010, 08:26
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8974
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
hmm, just now i thought of this...

you don't get PAID by posting into heap section.
you don't get PAID by reading heap section.

but why you read and post into this heap?
obviously, there is some sort of "value" here that MOTIVATE you to actually read & post.

called it "x" factor... we need to plant this "x" factor into moneyless society.
Post 08 Jul 2010, 08:32
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:
Post new topic Reply to topic

Jump to:  
Goto page 1, 2  Next

< Last Thread | Next Thread >
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Copyright © 1999-2020, Tomasz Grysztar. Also on YouTube, Twitter.

Website powered by rwasa.