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> Main > is it possible to assembly a code with no assembler? |
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Teehee 15 May 2010, 19:29
Do you get it? For example, the first software done when there is no another one, how it was compiled (assembled)?
_________________ Sorry if bad english. |
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15 May 2010, 19:29 |
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Coddy41 15 May 2010, 19:44
Eniac was the fist PC if I remember it right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC
It used Binary coded decimal "Excess 3" Put on punch cards originaly I think.. EDIT: If you REALLY wanted to you could still code with out an assembler/compiler but you need to know the opcodes in binnary/hex... I think MikeOS has a program that lets you type in opcodes and press enter to launch them... you could also make your own VERY easaly or just use a hex editor... you could even use the Fasm db sequence Code: db 0x66 0xB9 0xFF ; mov ecx, 0xFF you can look here for more |
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15 May 2010, 19:44 |
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Tyler 15 May 2010, 20:32
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace#First_computer_program The first "programmer" not only programmed w/o an assembler, but w/o a computer also(she made a theoretical algo for a theoretical "computer").
But yeah, if you happen to be a freak of nature that can remember opcodes and how to encode(specify types/sizes of operands and operands themselves) them, you could write a program with a hex editor. If you really want to try it, it just happens that we have one of those freaks of nature on this forum, Mazegen, his reference is great. It can be viewed in alphabetic order by mnemonic or numerically by opcode. Coddy41 wrote:
I've always padded my boot sectors with nops(0x90) using that method(idk why I don't just use "nop"). Other than "nop," I don't know any opcodes. No need to, I got Fasm  . |
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15 May 2010, 20:32 |
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Teehee 15 May 2010, 21:53
very good, thank you guys.
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15 May 2010, 21:53 |
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Coddy41 15 May 2010, 23:29
Tyler wrote: Other than "nop," I don't know any opcodes. No need to, I got Fasm I have learned quite a bit playing with opcodes that past ~2 hours... took me allot of work but I think I almost got all the bugs worked (clearing screen and writing "hi  " using direct memory acsess and raw opcodes w/ 32bit) Atleast I understand some things that made me scratch my head before.
ManOfSteel wrote: As late as the 70-80ies, engineers continued to use punched cards and tapes (e.g. DEC's PDPs). So even at that time they didn't care about the luxury of having assemblers and compilers. We really have lost our ways! Right now that sounds like my sort of time  _________________ Want hosting for free for your asm project? You can PM me. (*.fasm4u.net) |
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15 May 2010, 23:29 |
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roboman 16 May 2010, 02:22
Punch cards and tape, how about putting the program directly into memory with switches on the front of the computer. http://www.altairkit.com/ I almost miss my old Altair.
I thought Eniac had a 'rom' that was 'writen' to by changing jumper wires directly on the 'rom' board, might be thinking of some other early big computer. Ah yes it was [It was programmed by a combination of plugboard wiring and three "portable function tables". Each function table has 1200 ten-way switches, used for entering tables of numbers.] |
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16 May 2010, 02:22 |
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Coddy41 16 May 2010, 14:30
Ah, I probibly got it confused with something else then(do it all the time I wouldn't be suprised)... I find it funny how the original programmers were wemon but now it seems
that mostly only men code these days... Quote: how about putting the program directly into memory with switches on the front of the computer. http://www.altairkit.com/ I almost miss my old Altair. it would be nice for testing code rather than wasting tap and cards just to see if it worked... _________________ Want hosting for free for your asm project? You can PM me. (*.fasm4u.net) |
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16 May 2010, 14:30 |
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Teehee 16 May 2010, 21:29
is Fasm done in C or something?
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16 May 2010, 21:29 |
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Tyler 16 May 2010, 21:58
Are you serious?
 Download a Fasm package and look in any file in the SOURCE folder. |
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16 May 2010, 21:58 |
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ManOfSteel 16 May 2010, 22:03
Teehee wrote: is Fasm done in C or something? O_o Is this a serious question? If I'm not mistaken, Tomasz implemented it first in tasm, then rewrote it in fasm for self-hosting. |
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16 May 2010, 22:03 |
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Teehee 17 May 2010, 15:58
ManOfSteel wrote: Tomasz implemented it first in tasm, then rewrote it in fasm for self-hosting. I would reach in that point. Sorry for scare you guys _________________ Sorry if bad english. |
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17 May 2010, 15:58 |
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shoorick 18 May 2010, 12:56
my first assembly programs were written exactly without assembler
as well as disassembly
 _________________ UNICODE forever! |
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18 May 2010, 12:56 |
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alorent 19 May 2010, 11:48
shoorick, that's a piece of art!!!
I remember that at my early ages, I couldn't find any machine code book around for my CPC464...you can imagine my frustation |
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19 May 2010, 11:48 |
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shoorick 19 May 2010, 12:00
it was because my first hand-made pc has no deal with cassette recorder first time
who knows if i ever were known on such art, if it would work well from start |
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19 May 2010, 12:00 |
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edfed 19 May 2010, 13:53
maybe it can be pretty easy to write an hexadecimal editor, in less than 512 bytes, that give the hability to write binary code, and execute it.
a good contest i believe will be to do that. |
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19 May 2010, 13:53 |
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edemko 19 May 2010, 13:59
morphing viruses based on your ideas edfed
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19 May 2010, 13:59 |
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shoorick 19 May 2010, 14:38
edfed
why not? even up to 64kb then it will be possible to write it into eprom as bios extension i do not see any physical reason in 512 bytes. sector? do you have a diskette with single sector? generally, i have some ansient 512 bytes OTP roms, but have no programmer for them yet, and they are not in DIP package, only soldering available... least reprogrammable ROM i have is 2kb 2716. so, as usual i can promise to write winning project into real eprom and test on real pc
writing a 27512 (it was ROMOS) |
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19 May 2010, 14:38 |
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edfed 19 May 2010, 15:14
here the squeleton for this idea.
just the hexadecimal view. hexexe.asm (i like this name, hexexe, because it drives crazy ot read  )
Code: ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; org 100h mov ax,0b800h mov es,ax mov ax,cs mov gs,ax @@: xor di,di call linenumber mov di,(4+1)*2 call hexview mov di,(32+1+4+1)*2 call asciiview mov di,70*2 mov si,hexexe call textview call edit call run ; add [index],16 ; cmp [index],0 ; hlt ; jne @b ; mov ax,3 ; int 10h ret ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; black=0 blue=1 green=2 cyan=3 red=4 magenta=5 brown=6 gray1=7 gray2=8 teal=9 lime=10 aqua=11 skin=12 pink=13 yellow=14 white=15 numbercolor= yellow+blue*16 hexacolor = black+gray1*16 asciicolor = black+gray1*16 textcolor = black*16+white ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; hexexe db 'hexexe.com',0 cursor db 0,0 index dw 0 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; textview: mov ah,textcolor @@: lodsb cmp al,0 je @f stosw jmp @b @@: ret ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; hexview: mov ah,hexacolor mov bx,[index] mov dh,25 .line: mov cx,16 .load: mov dl,[gs:bx] call hexdigit shr dl,4 call hexdigit inc bx xor ah,1 loop .load add di,160-16*4 dec dh jne .line .end: ret ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; asciiview: mov ah,asciicolor mov bx,[index] mov dh,25 .line: mov cx,16 .load: mov al,[gs:bx] stosw inc bx xor ah,1 loop .load add di,160-16*2 dec dh jne .line .end: ret ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; edit: ret ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; run: ret ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; linenumber: mov dx,[index] mov bl,25 mov ah,numbercolor @@: mov cx,4 .cycle: rol dx,4 call hexdigit loop .cycle add di,160-8 add dx,16 dec bl jne @b ret ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; hexdigit: mov al,dl and al,0Fh cmp al,10 sbb al,069h das stosw ret compile in 179 bytes, 331 bytes free for a boot sector. the size limited to 512 bytes because of bootsector, and the need to write by hand all digits in ordre to execute the code one more time, like fasm does compile itself, hexexe editing itself
need to code edit and run functions now. |
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19 May 2010, 15:14 |
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alorent 20 May 2010, 06:13
edfed, I like the idea!
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20 May 2010, 06:13 |
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