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Tyler



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 1216
Location: NC, USA
Tyler
Any version/distro of Linux I've used has done fine with <=1024MB ram 90% of the time, and the times it goes over that it's because I'm running XP in a VM. Ubuntu 10.04 Beta 2 is using 850MB right now, but that's because I've loaded it down with daemons and other stuff that runs in the background.
Quote:

Quote:

If you know you have not-so-perfect hardware then best to use a really tiny OS that does only exactly what you need and no more. But it still won't solve the problem, you merely reduce the likelihood of it occurring. In this case a custom Linux build could be the answer. Make it small and lean to reduce the random crashes. This is something I have wanted to do for myself but unfortunately I have no time to pursue it Sad

I have yet to have Linux itself crash, so i wouldn't work on it too hard.

I haven't either, but I did have it freeze one time. I mean froze as in NOTHING would work, I even hit Crtl+Alt+Del, NOTHING... I ended up doing a forced power off by holding down the power button. Can't remember what I was doing.
Post 20 Apr 2010, 07:03
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Tyler wrote:

Quote:

If you know you have not-so-perfect hardware then best to use a really tiny OS that does only exactly what you need and no more. But it still won't solve the problem, you merely reduce the likelihood of it occurring. In this case a custom Linux build could be the answer. Make it small and lean to reduce the random crashes. This is something I have wanted to do for myself but unfortunately I have no time to pursue it Sad

I have yet to have Linux itself crash, so i wouldn't work on it too hard.

I haven't either, but I did have it freeze one time. I mean froze as in NOTHING would work, I even hit Crtl+Alt+Del, NOTHING... I ended up doing a forced power off by holding down the power button. Can't remember what I was doing.[/quote]

This sort of thing happens to me all the time, and is a separate issue. I usually notice the harddrive is involved when this happens. Are you sure it wasn't somehow X (or something else even) freezing and that it really was the OS (You could check via remote pinging or something like that)?
Post 20 Apr 2010, 07:12
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
Picnic wrote:
I have thought of a scenario like that, where a group of bad mood psycho/hackers group get traffic lights control on a big city.

Live Free or Die Hard (aka Die Hard 4.0) Laughing


revolution wrote:
So even if you run Linux, or BSD, nothing, or anything, you will never be safe from motivated hackers.

Hmm, it all depends on the sysadmin's motivation. Razz

But I was just jocking anyway. I think it was obvious from the language/style I used.
Post 20 Apr 2010, 12:21
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
technically, specialised hardware should not run under windows.
but have it's own system, full designed only for the specialized task it should do.

a rad sign system should not run on a multi use PC, the PC should be really specialized for the road sign managment task, and it is still very huge to do.

if you put some general purpose OS over it, it will be hacked easy.
Post 20 Apr 2010, 12:48
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
revolution wrote:
I know that drivers in Windows have free roam over the whole system, but does *nix and BSD also allow this level of control with system drivers?
[...]
does *nix even have a BSOD equivalent screen

They panic() instead of showing a BSOD Wink
I don't know about GNU/Linux, but I've never seen a BSD RELEASE panicking, not even on hardware fault. It *may* and does happen on CURRENT and sometimes (rarely) on STABLE.

Here's a "hardware faults" anecdote. I had a failing NIC a few months ago. I noticed it when booting the machine. BSD said it had problems talking to the hardware (it could still name the device and give the manufacturer details), then it continued the normal startup, but of course was unable to fill the DHCP and DNS data. I'm so curious that I wanted to know what Windows had to say about all this. The startup stopped right after the logo and a BSOD appeared telling me there's a problem with the ACPI muhahaha. Thanks Windows for providing a completely unhelpful error message (surprising eh?) and not even letting me use my machine until the problem is solved!
Post 20 Apr 2010, 12:50
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
I've NEVER had a BSOD in 6 years except once when my hard drive motor stopped suddenly and my RAM had errors (so only twice in 6 years, both times due to hardware), and this was on my previous machine. Windows XP btw.

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Post 20 Apr 2010, 14:40
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17279
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
It seems that Windows handles bad hardware really poorly. It is quite sensitive to anything unexpected.

It is nice to see that ManOfSteel's BSD is tolerant to some forms of failure. This looks like really good design principles. Design to be tolerant to failure and the rest is easy.
Post 20 Apr 2010, 14:53
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
winodws is based on error codes, leading to system crash. a good error managment wuld be to just ignore error and replace it by a null action.
Post 20 Apr 2010, 15:00
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
ManOfSteel, have you tested without the NIC too? (I'm asking because maybe it didn't like your BIOS in the first place)
Post 20 Apr 2010, 17:05
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
edfed wrote:
winodws is based on error codes, leading to system crash. a good error managment wuld be to just ignore error and replace it by a null action.


Well no, and the BSoD screen explains the reason this is bad pretty well. "Prevent further damage." Let's say you had a piece of hardware that knew it was about to overheat and had to be turned off. The correct action would be to allow the hardware itself to have power to it cut off, to reboot it after a certain time, or some sort of procedure along those lines.
Post 20 Apr 2010, 17:16
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
LocoDelAssembly wrote:
ManOfSteel, have you tested without the NIC too? (I'm asking because maybe it didn't like your BIOS in the first place)

I've been dual booting that machine for years. The only problem was the failing NIC for sure, and the BSD message was pretty clear on that. Once I removed it, the message disappeared from dmesg and I was able to boot Windows again.
Post 20 Apr 2010, 19:23
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Tyler



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 1216
Location: NC, USA
Tyler
Found this while trying to find a good resolution pic of a BSOD for my Linux wallpaper. Supposed to be a BSOD on a McDonald's drive through screen, not sure if it's real, but the one's I've seen always had a black background.
Image
Post 25 Apr 2010, 09:58
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
Post 25 Apr 2010, 10:36
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Tyler



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 1216
Location: NC, USA
Tyler
You'd think people would eventually figure out that Linux is free and very good for embedded devices, just ask almost any router manufacturer.
Post 25 Apr 2010, 10:49
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
The McDonalds pic is supposed to be somewhat recent? That continuable BSOD is produced by the Win9x (and Me?) line.
Post 25 Apr 2010, 16:06
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
Tyler wrote:
You'd think people would eventually figure out that Linux is free and very good for embedded devices, just ask almost any router manufacturer.


It makes them much, much cheaper. However, windows is marketable, and linux isn't. People just don't know linux. Hell, i think some people think that different versions of windows are made by some company and that Windows means BIOS. For fun, go around asking people on the street if they would believe you if you told them that windows is actually stored on the hard drive. Razz
Post 26 Apr 2010, 06:41
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17279
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Tyler wrote:
You'd think people would eventually figure out that Linux is free and very good for embedded devices, just ask almost any router manufacturer.
There is also Windows XP embedded Shocked

I've never tried it but I know a few people that use it in the their products and say it does things well.

Is there an embedded version of BSD?
Post 26 Apr 2010, 13:45
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Tyler



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 1216
Location: NC, USA
Tyler
revolution wrote:

There is also Windows XP embedded

And MS managed to filled it with .NET bloat too, just like they did with the Zune and the XBox(not necessarily in that order).
Post 26 Apr 2010, 21:18
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Raedwulf



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 375
Location: United Kingdom
Raedwulf
Tyler wrote:
Any version/distro of Linux I've used has done fine with <=1024MB ram 90% of the time, and the times it goes over that it's because I'm running XP in a VM. Ubuntu 10.04 Beta 2 is using 850MB right now, but that's because I've loaded it down with daemons and other stuff that runs in the background.
Quote:

Quote:

If you know you have not-so-perfect hardware then best to use a really tiny OS that does only exactly what you need and no more. But it still won't solve the problem, you merely reduce the likelihood of it occurring. In this case a custom Linux build could be the answer. Make it small and lean to reduce the random crashes. This is something I have wanted to do for myself but unfortunately I have no time to pursue it Sad

I have yet to have Linux itself crash, so i wouldn't work on it too hard.

I haven't either, but I did have it freeze one time. I mean froze as in NOTHING would work, I even hit Crtl+Alt+Del, NOTHING... I ended up doing a forced power off by holding down the power button. Can't remember what I was doing.


ctrl+alt+delete doesn't do what it does on windows in linux, if you have it enabled (yes you can disable it for local security reasons) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key

Freezes can occur when there some hardware issue. Most of the time any problem chokes up errors into one of the logs in /var/log.

This does depend, however, if the driver has been written so that it does enough checking for such problems. Usually, a freeze = really bad problem, e.g. RAM or Motherboard or something that can hang X e.g. Video card.

Another reason that windows crashes more often is that X, for instance is run right up in userspace, so when it has a bug/dies it doesn't bring the whole system down, at the cost of running in userspace. In windows, the window manager runs from the kernel(please confirm this, i just know its run in a lower ring level), making it more responsive at the cost that if there's some mysterious bug, it goes down in a rage. Now remember, how many buffers get played with when you do graphical stuff Razz

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Raedwulf
Post 03 May 2010, 19:42
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Tyler



Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 1216
Location: NC, USA
Tyler
I just expected crtl+del+alt to do something because it triggers(or is supposed to trigger) an interrupt. Would X hanging like that also disallow F* to a tty? I tried to get to a terminal, but couldn't.
Post 03 May 2010, 19:58
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