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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
was pondering about this,
our 3D space, is that possible to open up the space like how we open the book?
Post 23 Feb 2010, 14:56
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


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revolution
Do you mean like a wormhole?
Post 23 Feb 2010, 15:02
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MazeGen



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MazeGen
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Post 23 Feb 2010, 17:18
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
yeah, worm hole or stargate portal.
It should be possible, tearing the space.
Maybe like both parties need to tear it at the same time in order to see each other.
if we got life, and assume we could go to another dimension after we dead, then maybe we could assume that space, earth or etc also got some sort of life.
So, how to kill the space..hehehehehe
Post 23 Feb 2010, 18:20
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Coddy41



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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Coddy41
> So, how to kill the space..hehehehehe

There was a way 37.589 years ago, but someone reported it and the programmers
added a patch so I guess you will have to find a new way Laughing

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Post 23 Feb 2010, 18:44
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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ManOfSteel
sleepsleep wrote:
Maybe like both parties need to tear it at the same time in order to see each other.

Some theorists say wormholes already exist naturally and we "only" have to find them and be able to exploit them, i.e. enlarge them enough and keep them open and stable for a vehicle to pass.

sleepsleep wrote:
we could go to another dimension after we dead

When our brain is dead, we're dead for good, because the mind/soul/spirit is a product of matter and all that really matters for any individual being is stored up there.
Unless this data is somehow transfered through a wormhole to another dimension (which I find hard to believe), then when we're dead we're really gone.

sleepsleep wrote:
So, how to kill the space

If by kill you mean tear, then "all" we need is mass. A huge amount of it!
Post 23 Feb 2010, 19:18
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
ManOfSteel wrote:
When our brain is dead, we're dead for good, because the mind/soul/spirit is a product of matter and all that really matters for any individual being is stored up there.
Statements like this require proof, you know Razz

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Post 23 Feb 2010, 20:41
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
so, does we somehow "exists" in atom or more smaller level? since they are just a bunch of "stuff" all the same. and "we" are living in those field (like magnetic field) around atom or smaller than that stuff.

or science just couldn't verify "where are we" till now?
Post 23 Feb 2010, 20:53
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
then i thought of this today,
what if our body is like browser? opera / ie / firefox?

the "we / i" is not inside the body (but temporarily cached during running), the our desire call through wifi/lan to watever we want.

assume i want to pick up the rubbish, the temporarily "i" inside my body reflect it through some sort of signal to "unknown" then i know i need to bend down in order to take the rubbish...

so let say if i dead, the temporarily i got deleted ( something like browser clear cache). but i still in "unknown".
Post 26 Feb 2010, 12:26
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
Are you basically saying that "you" are some piece of data (cache), but the real "you" after death is the CPU/hardware that executes and 'creates' that data? (i.e the "unknown")

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Post 26 Feb 2010, 13:14
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revolution
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revolution
Maybe we are all just a bunch of rocks

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Post 26 Feb 2010, 13:21
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sleepsleep



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sleepsleep
Borsuc wrote:
Are you basically saying that "you" are some piece of data (cache), but the real "you" after death is the CPU/hardware that executes and 'creates' that data? (i.e the "unknown")


hmm,
i mean, we are cache while on earth, (temporarily cache not full cache), thats why sometime we forgot something and so on.

btw, does science got explanation why we forget? and why we could remember certain event/things?

so, our real data are actually somewhere else and we use some sort of "wifi" technology to communicate with the center. (or 4th or 5th or last dimension)...
Post 26 Feb 2010, 14:34
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
in my opinion, the real life is only matterial life.
after, there is a psychic life, inside the brain CPU.

the memory in our brain is like a compressed memory, not a raw birtmap, but a "i remember a large circle (code for a large circle) bleu (code for blue) moving, (curve of movement with a function) etc etc."

our memory should not ba a raw model, but a very compressed model, using atomic storage for datas.

somthing like taht.



but trying to understand it is like if a PC tries to understand its internal by itself. it is a little impossible.
Post 26 Feb 2010, 17:44
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
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ManOfSteel
sleepsleep wrote:
btw, does science got explanation why we forget? and why we could remember certain event/things?

Our memory is a bit like a relational database. When connections between individual memories are strong we tend to easily recall events associated to these multiple memories. When these connections weaken, data becomes difficult to retrieve and is eventually lost permanently.
Why do connections weaken? Because we stop reinforcing them and we instead reinforce other relations related to events that are more recurrent in our lives.

Of course we can even forget things we were thinking about just minutes ago. Lack of focus, distraction, tiredness, stress, certain medicines/drugs/alcohol, traumata, etc. can cause memory loss.

Memory loss is good. If we stored all stimuli like hard drives, we'd run out of memory, so to speak, and probably be driven mad because of cognitive dissonance.
Post 26 Feb 2010, 18:52
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ManOfSteel



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ManOfSteel
edfed wrote:
but trying to understand it is like if a PC tries to understand its internal by itself. it is a little impossible.

Because a computer has no self-awareness and sapience, unlike us. We can very well study our own internal mechanisms, and that's what we've been doing for the past thousand years only.
Don't forget how old we are and how still primitive our science and the knowledge of ourselves and the world is. We are like little babies. Don't expect too much of us in our current form.
Post 26 Feb 2010, 19:13
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
ManOfSteel wrote:
Our memory is a bit like a relational database. When connections between individual memories are strong we tend to easily recall events associated to these multiple memories. When these connections weaken, data becomes difficult to retrieve and is eventually lost permanently.
Why do connections weaken? Because we stop reinforcing them and we instead reinforce other relations related to events that are more recurrent in our lives.

Of course we can even forget things we were thinking about just minutes ago. Lack of focus, distraction, tiredness, stress, certain medicines/drugs/alcohol, traumata, etc. can cause memory loss.

Memory loss is good. If we stored all stimuli like hard drives, we'd run out of memory, so to speak, and probably be driven mad because of cognitive dissonance.
In other words it works kinda like swapping out the unused-often pages to a "forget" disk Razz

ManOfSteel wrote:
Because a computer has no self-awareness and sapience, unlike us.
But still you cannot know every atom possible individually, you only use the abstract thinking to generalize it into a big array or loop. For example, it is impossible to examine every single neuron in your brain, because your brain itself allocates neurons for this purpose (i.e without neurons you can't think at all, so some neurons are allocated for this Razz). So by that perspective it is indeed impossible to "analyze" yourself.

Note that analyzing how a neuron works, and then extrapolating this to all other neurons, is "the big picture". In effect you only truly factually analyzed only 1 neuron... the rest are just extrapolated.

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Post 27 Feb 2010, 15:12
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ManOfSteel



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ManOfSteel
Borsuc wrote:
So by that perspective it is indeed impossible to "analyze" yourself.

That's why scientists study "test subjects", not themselves. And they can anesthetize these subjects to study them while asleep, stimulate one body function/sense or another and observe the reaction, etc.
Now maybe someday we'll make use of highly advanced machines/computers and we'll be able to analyze our own brains, maybe even make backups, delete painful memories, manipulate other memories and insert fantasies. But this is mere speculation. For now.

Borsuc wrote:
In effect you only truly factually analyzed only 1 neuron... the rest are just extrapolated.

No. When scientists study the brain, they're either studying it in its entirety or a specific region, lobe, etc, or at the very least a single nerve.
Post 27 Feb 2010, 22:45
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Borsuc



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Borsuc
ManOfSteel wrote:
No. When scientists study the brain, they're either studying it in its entirety or a specific region, lobe, etc, or at the very least a single nerve.
No they are NOT studying it in its "entirety" because you are talking about a different context. By "entirety" what I mean is, absolutely everything, every single atom. I doubt that they study ALL the positions of ALL the atoms and are able to make decisions based on ALL that information. They only study chunks. It's like studying hashes of a piece of memory: much less detail needed than the actual atoms (bits).

For example, a virtual machine. Let's say you have a machine with 4GB RAM. Now you want to "analyze" a virtual machine with 8GB RAM... impossible dude. You can't do even 4GB, because some of that is 'used up' for the software used in analyzing.

Again, by 'analyzing' I mean storing information about every single bit in the virtual machine (how the brain connections work, the brain doesn't have "loops" like in software, so you can't just 'loop' over an array with a formula). To do that, you must completely "enclose" the virtual machine within your capacity.

EDIT: please no jokes about swapping to disk please, because the brain doesn't have that capacity Razz

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Post 28 Feb 2010, 14:02
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revolution
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revolution
Borsuc wrote:
EDIT: please no jokes about swapping to disk please, because the brain doesn't have that capacity Razz
Yeah it does. We swap it to notebooks (or in some cases forum replies) Idea

edfed swaps all his stuff here. After the sixteenth time of erasing his HDD he comes here to reload all the stuff into memory.
Post 28 Feb 2010, 14:19
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ManOfSteel



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ManOfSteel
Borsuc wrote:
No they are NOT studying it in its "entirety" because you are talking about a different context. By "entirety" what I mean is, absolutely everything, every single atom.

Because this precisely, is completely useless. All these things can only be understood in their complexity, in their dynamism, and in their interactions with other complex "systems".

When I read 'A', I don't care much about the binary code behind it, or the electrons coming in from the electrical grid to the PSU, to the motherboard, to the video card, to the monitor, ... or their silicon and germanium atoms. I only care about the group of 7 binary bits that form the ASCII 'A'.
The scientist only cares about the overall mechanisms of a lobe or nerve, and not single neurons in the nerve, and even less the atoms that form these cells, or their subatomic particles (e.g. neutrons), or their elementary particles (e.g. quarks), or whatever comes next. At best the neurologist would be interested in, let's say, the role of potassium or calcium molecules in the inner functions of macroglia cells.

Plus the "macro-behavior" is explained/defined by the "micro-behavior" anyway. We exist and function as macro organisms because our organs are there, because their cells are stable, because their particles are stable due to strong chemical bonds, because the electronic bonds between their atoms are stable and strong enough. Disrupt subatomic bonds and we won't exist.
In other words, by studying the macro-level, the scientist is implicitly taking the micro-level into consideration.
Post 28 Feb 2010, 14:46
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