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booter



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 67
booter
I have some ideas about the new "real" OS that would be able to compete with Windows and Linux. I believe it may be created by enthusiasts Smile
The main idea is that OS should be consist of the "servers" that perform designated functions and run independently each on its own virtual machine.
OS core (bare metal hypervisor) just provides inter-server communications and assignes hardware resources to servers. Each server uses physical hardware assigned to it along with virtual hardware provided by other servers.
Examples of servers:
- HDD server (owns physical HDD)
- file server (uses virtual HDD provided by HDD server)
- network packet
- network connection
- screen (ownes physical screen, provides virtual screens)
- keyboard
- memory
It's important, that initially servers may run any of existing OS on wich would run applications to provide virtual hardware to other OS. Initially virtual hardware would comply with existing standards on physical hardware, but eventually new interfaces would be added to make inter-server communications more efficient.
Small OSes (which can hadle hardware, but do not provide extensive functionality) may be used as virtual servers.
Of course, existing applications may run unchanged under their respective OSes on designated (or shared) virtual machines.
In two words: OS as a farm of virtual servers.
BTW, each server may be developed independently, written in any programming language in a way completely up to its developer.
The community handles only inter-server communication protocols and hypervisor API.
Post 17 Jan 2010, 12:58
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baldr



Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 1651
baldr
booter,

Virtualization establishes common ground for different hardware, losing specific functionality of them. Gaming performance can push MS/nVidia/AMD+ATI to develop compatible specification for their features, but how can you force all brands of HDD to flush their write cache at once (and report upon completion, unless timeout) before shutdown?

Microkernel architecture is good when (inter-server) communication is fast. Propose sufficiently fast scheme for x86 architecture. Think about security.
Post 17 Jan 2010, 13:34
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 8864
Location: ˛                             ⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣⁣Posts: 334455
sleepsleep
my idea is like http OS.
everything will be call through HTTP or other protocol that seems fit.
this will totally eliminate the dll hell or other depencency.

because the http will be a wrapper / middle man to all called function.
eg.
to delete a file.

i just need to http://localhost:888/delete.php?filename=blabala
then the http will check caller id and authorization then perform the job.

this will make everybody (most web developer) easier to produce application for this particular OS.

everything will be web-based. and i believe, this is future.

and i believe also, compiled language still have its stand in future (in order to produce the bare/native dll, library) but the future is language that easy to use, refresh then you can see output, adjust the design/output accordingly, fast in execution.

but i believe also, pc will divided into 2 main stream,
gaming pc and office-use pc.

and most in offices are for general spreadsheet use, youtube video, word processing and those applications that NO NEED - 3D api, fast rotation, fast graphic support, and those gaming related features. fast frame and so on.

if i am still alive after 10 years, i will bring this thread back and see how much things i mentioned above jackpot.
Post 17 Jan 2010, 16:44
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
my idea of future OS is:
a personal extention for your own passion.
an OS that you can modify and majke evolve yourself.

not a standard OS, but an OS taht can respond to at least one standard code format (common to everybody).
and another code format, specific to your own preferences.

define personalised file systems las easy as playing a game or like if you were writing a word(TM)(R)(C)(M$) document.

and why there are so many personnal OSes in the future? (>10years)
because on fasm forum, w develloped many OSes template that pemrit to anyone to devellop his OS.

the techniques used to build OSes with fasm will become better and better.
the required knowledge to build your version of OS based on one template will be lesser and lesser, in order to leave to user a Physical interface for code edition.

personal compute,, personal OS, personal datas on the machine.
personal useage.
a sort of extend that our future childrens will create at school time, and use all their life with a personal manner.

and in the future, people will understand that every human being can do what was done by any human. and easy because precedent human leave many documents and knoledge.


Very Happy
Post 17 Jan 2010, 17:34
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booter



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 67
booter
baldr wrote:
booter,
Virtualization establishes common ground for different hardware, losing specific functionality of them. Gaming performance can push MS/nVidia/AMD+ATI to develop compatible specification for their features, but how can you force all brands of HDD to flush their write cache at once (and report upon completion, unless timeout) before shutdown?

Microkernel architecture is good when (inter-server) communication is fast. Propose sufficiently fast scheme for x86 architecture. Think about security.
1. I assume that "hardware-level" servers are specific for each particular hardware. They may be written by different people (hopefully hardware manufacturers, but for the beginning be just any known OS with particular driver).
2. In my opinion client-server communications should be simple synchronous (i.e. blocking) request-responce, though each VM may provide several CPUs to simplify parallel execution. Client should always provide responce area in its own address space, which is mapped to the server by the hypervisor.
3. The crucial parts are physical CPU(s) scheduling and memory virtualixation, though I have some ideas...
4. Regarding speed, I believe that specialized software written for the particular purpose is much faster then "universal" one that deals with "generalized entities". For example OpenGL server for ATI and OpenGL server for Nvidia should be completely independent and be available in several variants each (from competeng vendors, including GNU-community).
5. We would loose a lot on context switches, but the rest would be so fast... However, not from the very beginning when servers would be just "existing OS" + Device Driver + Virtual device provider application. So initally it would be more like "proof of concept" to tune communication protocols and finalize the hypervisor.
6. I don't see any possible issues with security because each server runs on its own VM and interacts with others only via hypervisor calls. All communications follow protocol specifications. Even if some server gets compromized its communications have to comply with system settings and it can not harm the rest of the system. And, of course, hypervisor is 100% bullet-proof and can never get compromized by any means.

BTW, NAS running in XEN VM would be an illustration of my approach (of course I don't want to use TCP/IP for file access. It's just demonstrates virtaulized file server that handles designated HDD).
Post 20 Jan 2010, 11:24
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
I beleave that hobby OS makers, should make headless OS's, that do everything using a tcp/ip interface.
We can then use the graphic/sound of any device with a browser installed, to send and get data to and from our programs.
Post 20 Jan 2010, 23:53
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smiddy



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 559
smiddy
Hey Dex4u, long time no chat?! Smile
Post 21 Jan 2010, 03:24
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
smiddy wrote:
Hey Dex4u, long time no chat?! Smile

Hi smiddy, glad to see your back Smile.
Post 21 Jan 2010, 05:25
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tom tobias



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 1320
Location: usa
tom tobias
smiddy wrote:
Hey Dex4u, long time no chat?!

Gosh, all must be right with the world, smiddy has returned!! It was not even three weeks ago, I was reflecting on your contributions to the forum.

Echoing Craig's hearty welcome, good to see your return to the fray....

How was Law School?

cheers,
tom

Smile
Post 21 Jan 2010, 13:12
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smiddy



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 559
smiddy
Dex4u wrote:
smiddy wrote:
Hey Dex4u, long time no chat?! Smile

Hi smiddy, glad to see your back Smile.

Thanks! I will try to get by your site soon. I am going to start working on some code again. Very Happy
Post 22 Jan 2010, 01:08
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smiddy



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 559
smiddy
tom tobias wrote:
smiddy wrote:
Hey Dex4u, long time no chat?!

Gosh, all must be right with the world, smiddy has returned!! It was not even three weeks ago, I was reflecting on your contributions to the forum.

Echoing Craig's hearty welcome, good to see your return to the fray....

How was Law School?

cheers,
tom

Smile
Greetings Sir,

I didn't go to Law School, that was one of my choices I had considered for an advanced degree, but alas I am going to remain focused on engineering. Smile In the coming weeks I am brushing up on ASM and intend on re-addressing my OS. I haven't looked at ASM code in nearly three years, until recently. I am eager to get into Long Mode, but I need to learn a few things first, so I will be lurking a bit.

How have you been doing? Weren't you writing an ASM book or something (sorry age tends to catch up with us old guys)?
Post 22 Jan 2010, 01:13
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Coddy41



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Ohio, USA
Coddy41
Dex4u wrote:
I beleave that hobby OS makers, should make headless OS's, that do everything using a tcp/ip interface.
We can then use the graphic/sound of any device with a browser installed, to send and get data to and from our programs.

Yes, well I think maybe a bit different, I am not big on the though of all in browser work, it
sounds kreepy that your privite files are on a server somewhere, and what if the people whome
maintain your network conection decide to upgrade, your stuck with no music, no sound,
remember your sound is on the net, so is ALL your software and source code Sad What if the
user has dial up (LOL, I know, who has that these days) or slowerish connection :/

I think I like OSes how they are now. Wink

_________________
Want hosting for free for your asm project? You can PM me. (*.fasm4u.net)
Post 22 Jan 2010, 02:47
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17247
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Coddy41 wrote:
sounds kreepy that your privite files are on a server somewhere, and what if the people whome
maintain your network conection decide to upgrade, your stuck with no music, no sound,
remember your sound is on the net, so is ALL your software and source code Sad
See the thread about cloud computing for some discussion.
Post 22 Jan 2010, 02:54
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bitshifter



Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Massachusetts, USA
bitshifter
Coddy41 said:
What if the user has dial up
(LOL, I know, who has that these days) or slowerish connection.

bitshifter says:
I do, a whopping 5kbps on a good day!
But that what you get for 5 bucks a month...

And i would never use an OS that required
me to be online to do anything with it.

I have two main PC here.
One for internet browsing, the other for development.
It is very important to me to have these separate.
Post 22 Jan 2010, 07:09
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
Quote:
And i would never use an OS that required
me to be online to do anything with it.

+850 (from YamahaTDM engine) Wink

and we can add another thing:

I will never use an OS that require to be logged to a particular network (google?, MSN?, YAHOO?) in order to work.

don't dream, if one day OSes will connect to internet for system loading, it will be first IT world companies OSes. and then, a wonderfull tool for a new kind of dictatorchip.
Post 22 Jan 2010, 11:37
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Coddy41



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Ohio, USA
Coddy41
@revolution: the res-eon it is called cloud computing is because is looks all nice and fluffy on the outside
until they have you, then, you see the lightning flash, the rain poor down, and the thunder roll Wink

@bitshifter: That is all you get for 5 bucks? I used to get about 40kbs for 9.99 Confused have you looked into the free dial plans yet? They run about the same :/

edfed wrote:

don't dream, if one day OSes will connect to internet for system loading, it will be first IT world
companies OSes. and then, a wonderfull tool for a new kind of dictatorchip.

I fear that we will see dictatorship in the futer and these things pushed on us, I can already see
MS with there powerPC clones in laptop and all in one desktops hiched up with cloud computing. Sad


Last edited by Coddy41 on 22 Jan 2010, 16:12; edited 1 time in total
Post 22 Jan 2010, 15:37
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17247
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Coddy41 wrote:
@revolution: the res-eon it is called cloud computing is because is looks all nice and fluffy on the outside
until they have you, then, you see the lightning flash, the rain poor down, and the thunder roll Wink
I good analogy Smile
Post 22 Jan 2010, 16:00
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 4237
Location: 2018
edfed
Quote:
cloud computing


i'd prefer sun computing.

it shines on everybody, it warms the icy cosmos , it feeds your trees, it gives you light, it manages the water cycle and never have a bad effect if used properlly (according to the notice).

but havce a desastrous effect, when people believe in SUN like IN god of the goddish religion, it does wrong.

google/microsoft/linux... are more like religions nowadays.

and religious faith for a technical stuff like computer is a nonsense.
Post 22 Jan 2010, 16:19
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Coddy41



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Ohio, USA
Coddy41
> google/microsoft/linux... are more like religions nowadays.

Let us all bow down and worship the all mighty and powerful microsoft whome brought us out of the bad
days of computing and made it easy to understand!

Let us also worship Linux whome saved us from viruses!

And hail google! the soul res-eon I live today! [/sarcasm]

> and religious faith for a technical stuff like computer is a nonsense.
I Agree.


And is not sun computing what we use today?
Post 22 Jan 2010, 16:32
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Dex4u



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: web
Dex4u
I thing cloud computing is miss understood, you see it as a way to lose control, but i see it as more power to hobby OS's.

With cloud computing the OS is less important, so this will mean more standards, more open drivers etc.

Take the fact that we are on a asm forum, we make small app, so most of us on this forum will be making dashboard widgets or screenlets, or gadgets etc.

Or what about a widget OS Cool
Post 22 Jan 2010, 18:59
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