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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
DOS386 wrote:
Quote:
( 15 ) Linux is generally faster for a given set of hardware specifications. This is due to greater optimization of the source code, including far less code bloat.

( 18 ) Linux reduces the need to upgrade or replace hardware when upgrading to newer versions. This is because its code is very efficient and compact, thus allowing it to work effectively on older computers that are not suitable for the newest versions of Microsoft Windows.


At least 2 are invalid.


I don't know how efficient to code is, but at least I still can run the latest distro (Slackware 13) on my old desktop (P4 1.3 GHz, 128 MB RAM). Sure it's not blazingly fast, but it's still okay. And I'm sure Win 7 don't even install on it.
Post 20 Dec 2009, 15:06
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sleepsleep



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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sleepsleep
even windows xp on a pentium 4 with 1 GB ddr1 also seems like a bit slow nowadays.
i tried linux on a penitum 4 with 1 GB memory, and i could tell you, it works blazingly fast compare to its xp brother.
Post 20 Dec 2009, 16:50
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shoorick



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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Location: Ukraine
shoorick
i have celeron 300 MHz with 128 Mb of memory. it has 1.2 Gb first hdd with dos and second hdd 60 Gb, switched off in bios (i had no success in its bios upgrading yet). had no problem with installing and running w2k and xp sp2 there. also i have try a stack of linux distros (ASP, ALT, Fedora, Ubuntu), newest and elder versions - no one of them was able just to install there Very Happy

before there was a single hdd 20Gb and i had ASP 7.3 there - maybe it is loaded faster, but i can not say it was working faster then windows 2k/xp. of course, i have not spent a lot of time there. sure, windows have much better grafic interface Smile

finally, it was funny for me: i have downloaded a DVD(!) image with latest Ubuntu 9.10 and install it at home at newer pc... when i had try to listen mp3 it was asked me to install a plugin from internet. i have only 33.6 modem at home, and, even to install it, i also have to install before another package, which i have to download also from inet. Very Happy currently i'm working on the solution of this problem Smile

seems, or me is too stupid, or something is not as decrared Wink
Post 21 Dec 2009, 15:21
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revolution
When all else fails, read the source


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 17341
Location: In your JS exploiting you and your system
revolution
Lack of polish, spotty hardware compatibility, bewildering choices ... Linux has a long way to go before the average user even considers it. Technical folks tend to like Linux more because of the choices it offers, but the average users couldn't care much about getting into kernel builds and other esoteric stuff.

Most people, it seems, prefer to pay for the convenience of someone else choosing for them, even if only to keep with what their friends and colleagues are using.

It is catch-22. Decide not to support Windows and you will likely get very few users of your software. Or, support Windows and at the same time support the continuing proliferation of Windows in perpetuity.

Unless you have a genuine "killer app" then your software will likely not be of much importance to encourage people towards Linux. Because someone else will just write a Windows version.
Post 21 Dec 2009, 15:43
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
oh yeah i also hate the open-source apps for giving you only the source and not a binary in some cases or "compile it yourself". I don't want to compile it myself, I want it to work instantly...
Post 21 Dec 2009, 16:57
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LocoDelAssembly
Your code has a bug


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 4633
Location: Argentina
LocoDelAssembly
shoorick, the problem probably is that the codecs you need to play the sound are not legal to distribute freely in all countries so for that reason are not included in the DVD and you have to download them (notice that it warns you somewhere that downloading them may be illegal in your country).

As for the slowdowns over time of Windows, I don't see it myself in my XP (I had it without rebooting for a month when my HDD did an strange sound at powering up and I didn't want to shut it down to risk not being able to read it anymore). Windows 95 and 98SE are a complete different story though, but it is the only thing my Pentium MMX with 48 MB RAM can more or less support...

I guess I could try FreeBSD on it to see what it happens, but I think I have too little memory to run even xfce decently... (well, it will be much more stable for sure, but a lot of swapping will occur also)
Post 21 Dec 2009, 17:07
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ManOfSteel



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 1154
ManOfSteel
Then don't use Xfwm. There are many window managers out there for every taste and the rest of Xfce's applications can easily be replaced by more lightweight ones. I'd use a highly customized TWM on such machine hehe.
Post 21 Dec 2009, 19:20
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
Is there such a thing as "portable apps" in Linux? By that I mean apps that don't write to centralized folders, apps that can be run from a USB drive without leaving traces that will be there forever (not, say, temporary caching).

On my computer, for instance, I have nothing on my C drive except the OS -- and I hate the "Documents and Settings" (renamed to Profile) folder. I don't want to keep my stuff there, I want to keep my stuff where I want. (the D drive is configured exactly how I want)

Linux seriously needs to drop this multi-user approach to appeal to more people.

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Post 21 Dec 2009, 19:54
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r22



Joined: 27 Dec 2004
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r22
SPEED
Linux being faster is largely debatable, there's been a lot of benchmarks and tests done on sites like Tomshardware.com and Anandtech.com that put Ubuntu against Vista and Win7; Ubuntu coming up slower. This could be that software is more optimized/tuned for Windows, but even boot times are faster on windows with the same hardware.

EASE OF USE
I put Ubuntu on my parents' PC and the time it's saved me more than paid for the initial setup and configuration.
Sound didn't work... GOOGLE... terminal audio manager app FIXED.
Import bookmarks to FireFox... DONE
Import documents and pictures... DONE
Setup network printer... easier than windows DONE

WIFI IS THE ONLY LINUX PAIN
USB wifi dangles are a pain, some work out of the box others not so much. Sourcecode for the modules is appreciated, but can they also provide precompiled .ko's so you don't have to APT-GET the tool chain and MAKE the right MAKE.# file.

MOV RAX, RANT
RET 0
Post 21 Dec 2009, 21:19
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
sleepsleep wrote:
Quote:

My dad can't figure out how to login to ubuntu, and can't tell when to double click and when to single click in both windows and ubuntu. Concepts like minimize, maximize, and closing are quite far out of reach for him. This guy isn't that old, he's only in his 50s. Is my dad stupid, or is there no software out there that actually explains itself and makes sense without manual reading and/or training?

last time, i suggest that OS should be made based on common sense in a # irc room, and they laugh at me. i seriously believe that, all things should be made based on common sense, based on existence rules so people could just progress instead of learning something new daily which is too much time consuming.


Common sense is beyond the reach of LAZY people. It's the same way with my dad -- the OS isn't the problem, it's concept and design isn't the problem, it's performance isn't the problem, people being stupid isn't the problem, people being too f*ing lazy to learn how to operate a USB key IS THE PROBLEM.

There is no cure for laziness like put them in a situation where they'll HAVE TO do it themselves. And I mean absolutely have to. No testy environment where you'll see if they can do it by themselves. It has to be dead serious: Just them and them being too lazy to get what they want. Then it'll just happen. Magic!

Computers are just tools to get stuff done more easily. Anything that does that is good enough (ok that means Windows aren't good enough for a lot of things, but hey). If the user can't be happy with that fact, they will never be happy. Even if one day we come up with a computer that employs telepathy to problemsolve it's way to what the user had in mind they'll just be -- "Uuuuggghhh but I have to think it! This computer sucks."

Trust me. I have foreseen it!
Post 21 Dec 2009, 22:20
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kohlrak



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 1421
Location: Uncle Sam's Pad
kohlrak
DustWolf wrote:
sleepsleep wrote:
Quote:

My dad can't figure out how to login to ubuntu, and can't tell when to double click and when to single click in both windows and ubuntu. Concepts like minimize, maximize, and closing are quite far out of reach for him. This guy isn't that old, he's only in his 50s. Is my dad stupid, or is there no software out there that actually explains itself and makes sense without manual reading and/or training?

last time, i suggest that OS should be made based on common sense in a # irc room, and they laugh at me. i seriously believe that, all things should be made based on common sense, based on existence rules so people could just progress instead of learning something new daily which is too much time consuming.


Common sense is beyond the reach of LAZY people. It's the same way with my dad -- the OS isn't the problem, it's concept and design isn't the problem, it's performance isn't the problem, people being stupid isn't the problem, people being too f*ing lazy to learn how to operate a USB key IS THE PROBLEM.

There is no cure for laziness like put them in a situation where they'll HAVE TO do it themselves. And I mean absolutely have to. No testy environment where you'll see if they can do it by themselves. It has to be dead serious: Just them and them being too lazy to get what they want. Then it'll just happen. Magic!

Computers are just tools to get stuff done more easily. Anything that does that is good enough (ok that means Windows aren't good enough for a lot of things, but hey). If the user can't be happy with that fact, they will never be happy. Even if one day we come up with a computer that employs telepathy to problemsolve it's way to what the user had in mind they'll just be -- "Uuuuggghhh but I have to think it! This computer sucks."

Trust me. I have foreseen it!


I had a conversation with my girlfriend last night. She was upset because it was difficult for her to understand. She rathered not think, but that everything would come easy to her, and that everything i said were to make sense without having to teach her anything.
Post 21 Dec 2009, 22:39
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 2466
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Borsuc
kohlrak wrote:
She rathered not think
she's a girl, right? Laughing

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Post 21 Dec 2009, 23:04
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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DustWolf
kohlrak wrote:
I had a conversation with my girlfriend last night. She was upset because it was difficult for her to understand. She rathered not think, but that everything would come easy to her, and that everything i said were to make sense without having to teach her anything.


I have had a very similar conversation with my dad and after trying for a week to get everything right and him STILL being disappointed at everything, it became crystal clear to me: If the user is not willing to deal with having to solve his problem, no amount of help from anyone else will ever help.

The problem is people have to use their brains. If they don't, it's no use having them. And then everything they do is just idiotic. If they want their solution without having to think, they better go back to their TV and beer, throw away the remote and forget about ever doing anything useful in their lives.

It's harsh and I'm not usually the kind of person to be harsh at users -- I work at tech support and everybody always compliments me on my nerves -- but there are some problems my hard work can simply never fix. And it's those kinds of problems none of the other programmers can ever fix either.

I'm not saying it's impossible to make interfaces intuitive. I'm saying a user who can't learn the meaning of a double-click just can't be helped this way. And yes, I'm sure.
Post 21 Dec 2009, 23:06
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
Borsuc wrote:
oh yeah i also hate the open-source apps for giving you only the source and not a binary in some cases or "compile it yourself". I don't want to compile it myself, I want it to work instantly...


that's what a package manager for, if you don't want to compile yourself Wink
care to name some apps which provides source code only?

Borsuc wrote:
Is there such a thing as "portable apps" in Linux? By that I mean apps that don't write to centralized folders, apps that can be run from a USB drive without leaving traces that will be there forever (not, say, temporary caching).


http://www.portools.com/apps
only a few apps available, though
not as many as its Windows version
Post 22 Dec 2009, 03:02
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Borsuc



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
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Borsuc
@TmX: I'm not bashing Linux, heck I don't even have it. I'm saying what I heard -- that some apps come with source only doesn't have anything to do with Linux either, it's just that under Linux you're expected to be able to re-compile it (unlike in say, Windows).
Post 22 Dec 2009, 03:23
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TmX



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
TmX
@Borsuc
I know you're not bashing Linux.

I'm just wondering which open source app that provides source only?
All the open source apps I use (firefox, openoffice, mplayer, etc) always have the binary version provided, either by the official developer or 3rd party.

Wink
Post 22 Dec 2009, 03:34
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shoorick



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1606
Location: Ukraine
shoorick
Smile
lazy men bye computers... not lazy take silicium, make transistors, solder them together with soldering stone, warmed on fire, etc. Wink
Post 22 Dec 2009, 07:46
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edfed



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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edfed
shoorick wrote:
Smile
lazy men bye computers... not lazy take silicium, make transistors, solder them together with soldering stone, warmed on fire, etc. Wink


lazy men take computer on windows, not lazy take computer with nothing, crazy take silicium.
Post 22 Dec 2009, 09:09
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shoorick



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1606
Location: Ukraine
shoorick
edfed wrote:

not lazy take computer with nothing


like this: http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=8189 ? Smile

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Post 22 Dec 2009, 09:21
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DustWolf



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
DustWolf
Borsuc wrote:
@TmX: I'm not bashing Linux, heck I don't even have it. I'm saying what I heard -- that some apps come with source only doesn't have anything to do with Linux either, it's just that under Linux you're expected to be able to re-compile it (unlike in say, Windows).


This argument is ridiculous. You've said it all: You don't use Linux. Hence you have no idea what you're talking about.

I have yet to see an Ubuntu user out there who is expected to know how to compile anything. Or SUSE user who even has a compiler on his box.

LP,
Jure
Post 23 Dec 2009, 02:39
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